Werewolf XLII, Mist in the Barrow Downs

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Now, one thing I would like to ask about - Greenie, do you actually see Sally's "suspicion" of Nogrod as serious? I'm quite sure it isn't, and the fact that you use it as a basis to suspect Sally doesn't look good.

Well, this could be answered with another question: are any suspicions here (including mine, mind you) actually serious, or rather, well-based or truly substantial? I should guess they aren't, which of course makes suspecting people at this phase no less important. My point is: though our suspicions at this point (generally) cannot have a good basis, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't suspect people at all. On the contrary, we should suspect as much as we can, to gather some substance to plant better suspicions on.

I didn't answer Rikae's question straightly, though... Was that answer enough, or do you want me to explain some more?

Now, then, about the whole "let's lynch the one who looks most suspicious" -theory-thingy. While I understand the point that the one who is considered suspicious-looking is often an ordo, I could respond by asking what do people mean by the term suspicious-looking. I understand it simply as who do I suspect to be a wolf, and logically I vote for one I suspect. What is the other option? Vote for the one I find least suspicious? Or rather, choose randomly?

[Gwathagor]

I'm sorry I haven't been involved in the discussion yet; I'm still getting a feel for the game at this point. However, I have been reading through the thread and taking notes, and I'll try to make some educated suggestions after dinner. I'm bringing my Colt Python .357 magnum...loaded with silver bullets. Let's kill us a werewolf!

[Macalaure]

And there's was me, thinking that my discussion hook went unnoticed.


Aganzir's backing off from me just after I backed off from her was unexpected. I'll have to make up my mind about her thoroughly tomorrow.

Menel is innocent.

A Little Green is extremely confusing in her response to Rikae. Surely you know there's a difference between a suspicion based on very little and a suspicion based on nothing - and Sally's joke was nothing. I first thought your suspicion was in fun as well, but now I'm wondering about you.
(I wrote this before I read Lily's last post. I'm not sure what to think of this now)

Originally Posted by Rikae

Mac, what do you mean by:
"In fact, I was looking for people who sneakily furthered the senseless discussion without giving their own opinion on it (to maintain a helpful image)."? It sounds like you're trying to back out of something, actually -you're going to have to clarify this.

My lorebooks tell me that early-Day-One-senseless-discussion is usually a good start of a game and the way people argue is often a good indicator of guilt. In this village there was nothing of the kind, so I felt like initiating it. Wolves obviously like senseless discussion, so they like to encourage it. On the other hand, they dislike being caught in it themselves - it makes them look unhelpful. That was the stereotype I was looking for.

Originally Posted by Rikae

he seems to be determined to be one of those "weird" players he advocated not lynching.

That, too.

I'm tending towards innocence with Rikae.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Aganzir's backing off from me just after I backed off from her was unexpected. I'll have to make up my mind about her thoroughly tomorrow.

What? Were you backing off? Where? Had you even been really suspecting me?
I don't think I was backing off either (and backing off what? Throwing suspicions around at the beginning of day 1 seldom means that I am all for lynching that person) - I just have the habit to speak what occurs to me, and if your post looked more innocentish than your earlier posts I do tend to mention it. Unexpected, yeah. I have a feeling werewolf is nowadays played with some certain formula and everything that doesn't happen as it's supposed is weird.

Rikae looks rather innocent, but then again that's what I always think.

Originally Posted by Rikae

McCaber - Five wolves, eh? I guess we're all set, then, and then some... hmm. I'm not sure going after Menel right now is really justified - these accusations seem almost deliberately weak.

I agree with you about him, but on the other hand, it's easy to find Menel suspicious, especially if one hasn't played with him that much. I would rather have liked to hear what he thought was wrong with Mac's posts (and it doesn't matter if someone has already said it- better to repeat than say nothing at all).

Greenie looks innocentish also, though I am aware of her ability to fool me.

Of the others I don't know yet.

Anyway, I shall go and have some sleep now.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta, having freed himself from the prison of bedclothes, blinked at Aganzir. "Let us hope you enjoy being wet," he promised, a glint of righteous retribution in his eye, before stalking off.

"Such a mean woman, where I'm concerned," he muttered to himself. "Always doing things to me, threatening me... Remember, the last time she threatened me, she'd been infected by that horrible Lycanthropy... I wonder if the same thing has happened here?"

Tripping over one of the wolf heads laying about the floor, Shasta glared at McCaber. "My good huntsman, these are clearly the heads of Lowland Timberwolves. Any huntsman with a grain of sense would know that this particular type of wolf has its habitat nowhere near our location.... which begs the question, how did you manage to find five where none should be? It makes me think that you're sending off a bit of a Hunter's Hint... but given that poor Farael gave no indication to the presence of a Hunter..."

Shasta trailed off, a wary look on his face.

[Gwathagor]

When do we have to decide who to lynch?

I feel as though Aganzir and A Little Green are quite eager to NOT be associated with one another, while, at the same time, each one protests the other's innocence. Examples: (from Aganzir) "Greenie looks innocentish to me." and (from A Little Green) "I don't think you are dangerous, though, only another ill-bred child."

Their plan would seem to be to defend each other without appearing co-conspirators; the worst thing that could happen to a band of werewolves would be for them to be clearly in cahoots with each other. Am I right?

A case of "the lady doth protest too much, methinks"? I'm sure that line is never quoted in here...

I also think Nogrod and Macalaure have been talking a lot of good sense.

[Nogrod]

I have promised not to flood-post and o'boy this is hard...

But then again I can make a few longer ones then... So here are some thoughts before I go to bed.

Even though I think the most Mac says is reasonable I find this one quite eyebrow-raising:

Originally Posted by Mac

I'm tending towards innocence with Rikae.

Not because I'd suspect Rikae any more than I do others but because this followed Rikae's post where she made a few questions about Mac's standing and it was left alone as the ending comment on it's own.

What bothers me is the question: why say it after defending oneself from the points Rikae had made? Mac is skilfull enough to post as a believable sense-making ordo if a wolf so at this point his sensibility can't be taken as a proof of his innocence but this kind of "being extra-careful" not to make enemies or to appease others when there is no need for it kind of stand out.

Mac is a questionmark to me right now.

I'm also a bit puzzled of all this discussion on LG's suspicion of Sally. If I just read what she said early toDay I see no problem there: saying that jumping on / chorusing an early suspicion looks wolvish indeed is just plain making sense. Let's go back to it for a moment:

Originally Posted by LG

"Sally... I don't like your easy joining to the suspicion of Nogrod. Also, throwing pillows is a very bad thing to do. Apologise to Nogrod! In addition to this, you are very evil to think Agan's little trick on Shasta a good joke. She did a very naughty thing, and it's nothing to laugh at. You look like an evil child to me. I'll be having a tight eye on you." With that, she gave Sally a taste of her "tight eye".

Rikae's reaction to this was (the very next post in the thread):

Originally Posted by Rikae

Now, one thing I would like to ask about - Greenie, do you actually see Sally's "suspicion" of Nogrod as serious? I'm quite sure it isn't, and the fact that you use it as a basis to suspect Sally doesn't look good.

Re-reading Greenie's points about Sally above kind of make this comment of Rikae to appear in a new light. Now who was jumping on jokes and taking them seriously?

But there's worse to come. Mac followed Rikae's course this way:

Surely you know there's a difference between a suspicion based on very little and a suspicion based on nothing - and Sally's joke was nothing. I first thought your suspicion was in fun as well, but now I'm wondering about you.

Still carrying this initial - and wrong - suspicion that Greenie had kind of seriously accused Sally of werewolvery which she hadn't as you all can see from above quotation.

So why were Rikae and later Mac so ready to go after Greenie who had just posted sense and a few jokes?

But then again - and this is even more disturbing - why did Greenie back off from what she had said after being pressured by Rikae and Mac?

She says:

Originally Posted by LG

Of course she was joking. But there can be evil intentions behind a joke... Okay, let's be frank: I didn't read it as carefully as I could have. The first (but not last, mind you) impression I got from the post was that she was airing a slight, half(or should we say quarter)-serious suspicion in-character. Now that I read it again, I see it as a joke.

This I find the most wolvish this far toDay (it's not much but something). She first made sense - like any decent wolf would - but after questioned she was a bit too happy to change position to talk herself out from suspicion and thence her preliminary sense get's viewed from a different angle... an ordo - if she had spoken honestly in the first post - would have defended her sensible position but a wolf needs to talk herself out from situations she feels are dangerous and can contradict her own earlier positions "admitting" things she has not said.

*Gah, I hope at least someone was able to follow that reasoning...*

Third thing. It's interesting how some people seem to speak against the better knowledge about things toDay.

Shasta said I had left my towel in the bathroom (a bathroom in the Barrow Downs?) after I had myself written that I had it with me. Now why on earth? It's mostly jokes and banter that early in the game but still that kind of made me wonder as he had to have read the few posts there were at that moment to be able to refer to it in the first place. So why on earth? I'm looking forwards to an explanation Shasta.

I was a bit worried about Menel after he said that:

Originally Posted by Menel

I believe that lynching Nogrod is a very bad idea. True, he can make a dangerous wolf, but if he's innocent we'd be losing one of our best. And thus far, what he's said has made a lot of sense, unlike some around here.

It felt just like feel-good -factor stuff. Yes it's nice to hear things like that but just because that it raises eyebrows... But the problem I have with Menel is his next one:

Originally Posted by Menel

True, I agreed with Nogrod that Rikae was talking nonsense

, which I did never say. I did answer Rikae's banter with banter but there was not a single line there suggesting that I was saying Rikae was someone specially talking nonsense...

So I'm quite worried with Menel as well. But with him I'm somewhat hesitating knowing the history of his family. He just ends up being suspected everytime and with my latest experiences (lynched on Day1 three times in a row) I can relate to that.

EDIT: X'd with Shasta...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Shasta said I had left my towel in the bathroom (a bathroom in the Barrow Downs?) after I had myself written that I had it with me. Now why on earth? It's mostly jokes and banter that early in the game but still that kind of made me wonder as he had to have read the few posts there were at that moment to be able to refer to it in the first place. So why on earth? I'm looking forwards to an explanation Shasta.

Shasta laughed. "Simple, my dear Nogrod!" he chuckled. "There were two towels!"

[Meneltarmacil]

Shasta, I'm kind of worried about you here. As far as I can tell, all your posts lately have been in-character banter, with little, if any, substance.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

Shasta, I'm kind of worried about you here. As far as I can tell, all your posts lately have been in-character banter, with little, if any, substance.

I rarely like to read too much into Day 1, as there isn't much concrete evidence to go on, and there's a far more likely chance to be wrong than there is to be right.

[Thinlómien]

A broadly smiling young Dúnadan lady entered the scene. "Water buffalos? Smelly? My apologies, Stepmother, I guess you just have to stay away from me." Her grin was even broader when she finished her sentence and sat next to Aganzir. "I'm not yours, though", she added in a self-important tone.

She cast another look at the dwarf-like being next to herself. "You are... odd. You are suspicious. I have a vaguely bad feeling about you." She stood up and wiped dust off her skirts. "I don't think I'd like to sit by you... wolf." Then she laughed. "Though I always think you're innocent, and you're always a wolf. So now that you seem suspicious, should I consider you innocentish?" She produced a flask from her pocket and took a long sip of blackcurrant juice. "Yes, you're a wolf and your fellows are Legate and Shasta. I've seen it in a dream."

Then the Dúnadan's expression grew a bit more serious. "I don't trust this Macalaure guy. While I agree that he talks, in a way, sense here

Originally Posted by Mac

Shall we lynch a weird-looking member of our group, or a conventional-looking? I say we go for the latter. My lorebook tells me that in dire situations like ours, the strange have been lynched early on more often than they deserve, and with very poor results usually. Let us go for one who flies under the radar, one who doesn't say anything controversial, one who seems eager to not rub people the wrong way. Sure, those people are difficult to catch since it requires a sharp eye to discern them from someone who says nothing because s/he just has nothing to say. But come on! Let us give effort and lynch one who is most eager not to be pinned down!

I still don't like it. Why? Something in the way that this comes so suddenly yet carefully formed just doesn't sit right with me. Besides, it urges people to act oddly and cause confusion. And most importantly, like Rikae here said, he takes care of acting somewhat weirdly himself - a great way of avoiding getting lynched, isn't it?"

She looked at the two she had just talked about. "Mac and Rikae... I'm afraid I don't like the way you court and trial each other. Careful agreements, defenses and accusations to balance it out. It looks quite fishy. But I think the most probable scenario is that one of you is a wolf and he or she is trying to get the another one to his or her side or win his or her trust. I don't like it..."

"Stepmother Green then... She doesn't alarm me in general, but her post #85 was just horrible.

Originally Posted by Greenie

I didn't answer Rikae's question straightly, though... Was that answer enough, or do you want me to explain some more?

That kind of friendliness (note the smiley) just seems all too wrong to me, it actually reminds me of my wolf attitude - I've made a post just like that as a wolf. There's something quite feigned in the tone and that "did I explain understandably?"+smilie combination."

Thinlómien sat down on the floor and after a little while, settled down to lay on the ground. She looked at the roof above and smiled. "I'd love to see the sky..." she mumbled, "But anyway, what did I want to say? Oh, probably that this Day has been weird - but I like it - and Gwathagor and Nogrod seem innocentish for now and I just really never can understand Menel."

edit: xed with Menel

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I've seen it in a dream."

Do you dream frequently?

[Nerwen]

Nerwen yawned and stretched herself. "Dear me, I have slept in!" She stood up and knocked her head on the ceiling. "Was this barrow designed for short people or something?"

Rubbing her head, she continued, "Now, it seems to me that whilst I slumbered I was dimly aware of a lot of arguing going on... some of which confused me.

Macalaure, you early on said:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Let us go for one who flies under the radar, one who doesn't say anything controversial, one who seems eager to not rub people the wrong way.

But now it seems you didn't mean any of your earlier statements– in fact, you were just trying to see if any of the wolves took the bait:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

My lorebooks tell me that early-Day-One-senseless-discussion is usually a good start of a game and the way people argue is often a good indicator of guilt. In this village there was nothing of the kind, so I felt like initiating it. Wolves obviously like senseless discussion, so they like to encourage it. On the other hand, they dislike being caught in it themselves - it makes them look unhelpful. That was the stereotype I was looking for..

Okay, that's not a bad plan for getting the wolves to reveal themselves... but what I'm curious about is what you would have done had it worked?

Edit: X'd with Menel and Lommy.