Small hands do them because they must... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ibrîniðilpathânezel · 01-29-2008, 09:24 AM

Just tossing in my two cents, here....

Gandalf (who has long been my favorite character, so I'm not bashing him here) has long had a reputation in ME as a meddler (especially among the Mortals). If he appears to be prodding Frodo into taking the Ring at the Council, it's something he started back when he urged Bilbo to let go of the Ring and let it pass to Frodo. I suspect that, though he no vision of the future that we know of, he had at the very least begun to suspect where Frodo's path was leading back when he first told him the truth about the Ring and asked him what he would now do with it. This whole thing was a very dark business from the start. Even though he and Elrond may have all but known the inevitability of Frodo's fate, it was a path he really had to choose for himself. Are they prodding him toward it or offering false hope by their comments during the Council, or are they offering various options for Frodo's consideration, which he must have the chance to consider whether or not they think this path is fated for him? So many ways of interpreting this, I think.

And I'm beginning to think I ought to make my signature "Call me Ibrin or Ibri."

01-30-2008, 05:01 PM

I think it's interesting how Elrond words his explanation to Frodo, that the task is appointed for him and not to him. Normally one appoints a task to someone, leading me to think that Elrond (whether from foresight or from Gandalf's counsel) understood that Frodo was suited for the job. The decision to accept this "fate," then, lies in Frodo's (small

) hands. But that leads me to pondering the position fate (or maybe, more accurately, chance [the ring "chooses" Bilbo, or just so happens to fall off Gollum's finger at the right time]) has in the whole ordeal, and already I'm confused. I haven't read the books in a while.

Galadriel55 · 05-23-2011, 04:18 PM

I think that Elrond, like Gandalf, saw the "strong side" of hobbits. He might have half-known-half-guessed that only hobbit would be able to take the task.

*That made me think of this - Elrond to hinself: "Only a hobbit would be strong enough - or stupid enough - to do this..."

*

And, as has been said before, both Elrond and Gandalf probably sensed that Frodo would have to go. Bilbo did too.

SlverGlass · 05-23-2011, 08:30 PM

Great question, Little Green. I could honestly owe up that this particular question had plagued my mind too. The replies posted are the same that I would have cited. am of the belief that it was a combination of several factors that caused Lord Elrond to comment such.

One would be his foresight, as has been mentioned before. And the other could be his wish to boost Frodo's confidence. If I remember correctly, Hobbit were the one group for whom no rings of power were crafted. it provided them more 'immunity' as considered to other souls. Even Gollum, who held on to the ring for so long, did not lose of his humanity. And Bilbo became the first person who willingly gave up the ring; though Gandalf did say that it was the ring's own will that prompted such an action.

Gandalf and Elrond being two of the wisest persons of the Arda knew, or at least suspected, that Frodo will have to be the one to carry the ring to its destruction. Not least because t would have been difficult, though not impossible, to convince Frodo to part with his ring.

In sort, Frodo Baggins was their best choice for this journey, as I doubt that they could have found another being whose mind could withstand the ring's temptation as much as the hobbits'. Elrond and Gandalf meddled; yes, but that meddling was probably the only way that could have achieved the end it did.

In fact, it was obvious that Frodo would have to be the carrier ever since Gandalf ordered him to reach Imladris. Had it not been his intention, he would have (in my opinion) not allowed the hobbits to scale such a journey.

Galadriel55 · 05-24-2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlverGlass

If I remember correctly, Hobbit were the one group for whom no rings of power were crafted. it provided them more 'immunity' as considered to other souls. Even Gollum, who held on to the ring for so long, did not lose of his humanity. And Bilbo became the first person who willingly gave up the ring; though Gandalf did say that it was the ring's own will that prompted such an action.

Good point! I think that Gandalf meant his own promptings, though, not the Ring's.

SlverGlass · 05-24-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Good point! I think that Gandalf meant his own promptings, though, not the Ring's.

Oh yes! You are right.

. I went back and re-read that part. Gandalf said that the ring left Gollum at its own will. But Bilbo was the person to cast it aside. Thank you for pointing it out. This act of Bilbo's just makes you love the hobbits even more, doesn't it?"

Galadriel55 · 05-24-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlverGlass

Thank you for pointing it out. This act of Bilbo's just makes you love the hobbits even more, doesn't it?"

You're very welcome. There's nothing better than pointing at other people's mistakes.

[/kidding. I also mix up little details like that.]

It makes me love Bilbo, Gandalf, and hobbits in general even more, as you said.

05-23-2011, 04:18 PM	#3
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,523	In addition to the other comments, so as not to repeat them... I think that Elrond, like Gandalf, saw the "strong side" of hobbits. He might have half-known-half-guessed that only hobbit would be able to take the task. That made me think of this - Elrond to hinself: "Only a hobbit would be strong enough - or stupid enough - to do this..." And, as has been said before, both Elrond and Gandalf probably sensed that Frodo would have to go. Bilbo did too. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

01-29-2008, 09:24 AM	#1
Ibrîniðilpathânezel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the Helcaraxe Posts: 733	Just tossing in my two cents, here.... Gandalf (who has long been my favorite character, so I'm not bashing him here) has long had a reputation in ME as a meddler (especially among the Mortals). If he appears to be prodding Frodo into taking the Ring at the Council, it's something he started back when he urged Bilbo to let go of the Ring and let it pass to Frodo. I suspect that, though he no vision of the future that we know of, he had at the very least begun to suspect where Frodo's path was leading back when he first told him the truth about the Ring and asked him what he would now do with it. This whole thing was a very dark business from the start. Even though he and Elrond may have all but known the inevitability of Frodo's fate, it was a path he really had to choose for himself. Are they prodding him toward it or offering false hope by their comments during the Council, or are they offering various options for Frodo's consideration, which he must have the chance to consider whether or not they think this path is fated for him? So many ways of interpreting this, I think. And I'm beginning to think I ought to make my signature "Call me Ibrin or Ibri."

01-30-2008, 05:01 PM	#2
Hywel Guest Posts: n/a	I think it's interesting how Elrond words his explanation to Frodo, that the task is appointed for him and not to him. Normally one appoints a task to someone, leading me to think that Elrond (whether from foresight or from Gandalf's counsel) understood that Frodo was suited for the job. The decision to accept this "fate," then, lies in Frodo's (small ) hands. But that leads me to pondering the position fate (or maybe, more accurately, chance [the ring "chooses" Bilbo, or just so happens to fall off Gollum's finger at the right time]) has in the whole ordeal, and already I'm confused. I haven't read the books in a while.

05-23-2011, 08:30 PM	#4
SlverGlass Pile O'Bones Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 17	Great question, Little Green. I could honestly owe up that this particular question had plagued my mind too. The replies posted are the same that I would have cited. am of the belief that it was a combination of several factors that caused Lord Elrond to comment such. One would be his foresight, as has been mentioned before. And the other could be his wish to boost Frodo's confidence. If I remember correctly, Hobbit were the one group for whom no rings of power were crafted. it provided them more 'immunity' as considered to other souls. Even Gollum, who held on to the ring for so long, did not lose of his humanity. And Bilbo became the first person who willingly gave up the ring; though Gandalf did say that it was the ring's own will that prompted such an action. Gandalf and Elrond being two of the wisest persons of the Arda knew, or at least suspected, that Frodo will have to be the one to carry the ring to its destruction. Not least because t would have been difficult, though not impossible, to convince Frodo to part with his ring. In sort, Frodo Baggins was their best choice for this journey, as I doubt that they could have found another being whose mind could withstand the ring's temptation as much as the hobbits'. Elrond and Gandalf meddled; yes, but that meddling was probably the only way that could have achieved the end it did. In fact, it was obvious that Frodo would have to be the carrier ever since Gandalf ordered him to reach Imladris. Had it not been his intention, he would have (in my opinion) not allowed the hobbits to scale such a journey.