WW XXXXI: With a Twist

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

The thought that we were all cobblers first occurred to me just after day 1.

Why didn't you reveal as a Seer on Day 3 then? I've always wondered why all cobblers don't do just that. Day 3 you come out and say "I dreamt of two wolves and it's too much information to keep to myself..." and just name two people that you think are not wolves.

That'll probably push the true seer out of hiding, and if you don't manage to get him lynched that day, the wolves will get to it soon enough!

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Farael

Why didn't you reveal as a Seer on Day 3 then? I've always wondered why all cobblers don't do just that. Day 3 you come out and say "I dreamt of two wolves and it's too much information to keep to myself..." and just name two people that you think are not wolves.

That'll probably push the true seer out of hiding, and if you don't manage to get him lynched that day, the wolves will get to it soon enough!

We were specifically instructed not to do anything crazy so I felt that would qualify as crazy.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Saucie

But I feel a bit of a phoney doing it, having voted in the lynching of two Wolves, voted for another when he was almost lynched and nearly cast the final vote to deny morm his victory ...

Ha ha, well what about this then?

Originally Posted by me

I could actually say the same to you: have you forgotten so quickly that I have voted for a wolf every single day?

Originally Posted by morm

We were specifically instructed not to do anything crazy so I felt that would qualify as crazy.

Me too.

I admit counting too much on the thought that Mac wouldn't be a wolf thrice in a row. But Mac and Nog's argument on Day 1 looked so pre-planned that I thought it could be possible they were the hunter and ranger and deliberately taking distance. Of course the thought of two teams never occurred to me.

Originally Posted by Saucie

but everyone resolutely refused to suspect me (which presumably meant that you thought me a Wolf).

I thought you would have been our safest lynch- I was fairly sure that either Kath or morm was the wolf (my logic said it was morm but intuition that Kath). I have no idea, though, why I never went after you.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, some questions to the phantom.
In the role pm you said we were to appear as innocents but there was one situation in which you could have allowed it to change. What would that situation have been?
And would the game have ended if we had killed the wolf or would we have continued lynching one another?

And to the wolves... Which team killed which person?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

would we have continued lynching one another?

I asked him that. He said "Probably."

Well... he said more than that, and it was funny, but you'll have to ask him about the last two thirds of his response.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by SpM

Hehe. Did anyone mention that the phantom is a megalo-maniac?

Maybe rather maniac than megalo

Originally Posted by TM

Oh man... I hope there will be a good old normal game after this cause this one really confused me.

Seconded.

Originally Posted by Mith

I loved following this game and have to say that all the ordos being cobblers actually made them all play "properly" IE speak out and not worry about own necks.

Not really. Personally I had a big problem with that and I am sure I played totally unnaturally. Agan, you really spotted something strange on me and/or did you add two and two and guess that we are all cobblers?

Originally Posted by SpM

My original plan, had morm left Legate alive, was to go strongly against him using the argument that the Wolf was probably dead and he was the one doing the killing.

Funnily enough, of course, as a Cobbler, I hoped to get you to do that As much as I wanted Agan to get people to lynch me, the best on Day 7 or if I survived, then the last day (as seemingly everyone hoped).

Concerning Wolves, I was sure Mac is one from Day 1, later from Day 3 I also thought about Rikae. I thought both Nog and Nerwen innocent. In the last phase, I was quite inclined to think that Morm is a wolf (and I was quite happy that everyone was inclined to trust him), however, there were moments when I was not sure if there could not be anyone else (namely SpM on the Day when Farael revealed himself and Kath later).

Originally Posted by SpM

That's a fair point. Posing as the Seer might have been construed as suicidal behaviour, which was off limits. Although it might be argued in the alternative that, as long as there was reasonable doubt (and therefore not obviously suicidal), then it was legitimate for a secret Cobbler to pretend to be the Seer.

No way. If they revealed you lied, you will be lynched and you will be revealed as ORDO - that would be really strange and will probably ruin TP's main purpose, or at least undermine it, as all would wonder why an ordo did such a thing, concluding that TP lies by saying you are an ordo. And the other cobblers, of course, will start to be suspicious.

Anyway, that was a funny game... but phantom, despite the fact I really liked it, I am hereby saying, and I MEAN it, that you will NEVER ever get me to play YOUR game again. NEVER!

And btw great job, Gifteds, especially Farael. If you were not in a village full of cobblers, I am sure you could have won...

[Macalaure]

Go morm! You brought home the victory for us!

Originally Posted by Sauce

Oh, and it is most amusing how, in a village full of Cobblers (all of whom were presumably trying to vote for the most innocent looking villagers), we managed to accumulate so many votes for Wolves and lynch two of them in the first three Days ...!

In a way, that's a compliment to the wolves. We all seemed to have managed to be appear so innocent that the cobblers wanted to lynch us.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But Mac and Nog's argument on Day 1 looked so pre-planned that I thought it could be possible they were the hunter and ranger and deliberately taking distance. Of course the thought of two teams never occurred to me.

As a wolf, I was happy that I could take the advantage of being able to do some honest wolf-hunting during the days and appear innocent by it. I was absolutely sure about Nogrod's guilt after his reply to me. It's funny: it seems like I was the only one who wanted to lynch him on Day One because he actually found him wolvish!

Originally Posted by Shasta

Why did I have to die first?

Sorry about that.... we didn't really have a clue who to kill in Night Two, and we thought you might have been gifted. The one we tried to kill during Night Three was Eomer, by the way.

Two questions for Nerwen: did you try to kill me because you found me innocentish/seerish or because you thought I was a competing wolf. And who did you attempt to kill the first night?

Last but not least: Kudos to Farael! You and Boro clearly played best in this game!

PS: I knew there was something wrong with Aganzir. Although, considering the fact that there was something wrong with almost everybody, this doesn't seem like a great accomplishment.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Agan, you really spotted something strange on me and/or did you add two and two and guess that we are all cobblers?

I never thought you were a wolf but you were certainly strange- in a cobblerish way. What made me sure was when you said I wasn't suspicious. (I'm not sure if you thought I might be a wolf. It was mostly the way you said it.)
I thought it unlikely that there would be two cobblers and, as there had been other weird persons as well, the idea that we all were just occurred to me and seemed to make so much sense.

Originally Posted by Legate

As much as I wanted Agan to get people to lynch me, the best on Day 7 or if I survived, then the last day (as seemingly everyone hoped).

I was quite sure Farael was going to dream of you but I was hoping the wolves would kill him. My intent was to make also myself look bad by wanting so vocally to lynch an innocent when there were quite few days left to find the last wolf.

Originally Posted by Mith

I actually was sure at one point that you were a wolf because I knew the gifted by then and you seemed not cobblerish and therefore must be a wolf.

That's why I kept labelling Rikae innocent (even with the risk of her being a gifted).

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Hi everyone. Good game. I really enjoyed most of it (though I must admit my interest lessened when roles were not discovered on death).

Very unique idea, phantom. I like the whole Ulmo story.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by morm

I feel the victory is so tainted. I actually felt like I accomplished something awesome that I've been longing to do since I began WW. Finding out that ultimately everybody wanted me to win lessens that for me.

Don't be too hard on yourself morm. You had me fooled. I thought you innocent, which is why I voted for you!

Originally Posted by Aganzir

My goal was to get lynched on the last day. So if morm hadn't retracted and voted me, I would have retracted him and voted Saucie- it wouldn't have mattered then if Saucie had managed to come back.

In which case, I would have been quite happy to leave things as they were. I had it in mind that it might be possible to get myself lynched on the final Day, and even tried to act slightly suspiciously without being too obvious, but everyone resolutely refused to suspect me (which presumably meant that you thought me a Wolf). My original plan, had morm left Legate alive, was to go strongly against him using the argument that the Wolf was probably dead and he was the one doing the killing.

Originally Posted by The Might

I was quite sure Nerwen was a wolf so tried to defend her somehow in the beginning, unfortunately failed at that.

Yes, Nerwen was the only Wolf that I felt reasonably sure about. With Mac, I kept swinging one way and then the other, which is why I didn't vote for him at first, despite feigning suspicion of him. Unfortunately, it served to add to the pressure on him, which seems to have helped convince Farael to dream of him.

Originally Posted by The Might

Then I actually thought that Boro and Farael were bluffing and so voted for Mac.

I had very little doubt that Farael and Boro were telling the truth. It seemed perfectly logical that Farael would dream of me first Night and, despite my best attempts to argue otherwise, I thought his story very plausible. Hence my vote for him.

Originally Posted by Mith

... all the ordos being cobblers actually made them all play "properly" IE speak out and not worry about own necks.

Actually, I was quite concerned about my own neck up until the last two Days. I always think that, unexpected events aside, the best job a Cobbler can do is to survive until the last Day and then try to vote with the Wolf. Although the importnace of having the final vote in this game made that slightly more difficult than normal.

Originally Posted by Farael

Why didn't you reveal as a Seer on Day 3 then? I've always wondered why all cobblers don't do just that.

Speaking for myself, I did consider revealing on Day 4 to try to counter your own reveal, but it is quite a difficult thing to pull off and, what with it being New Year's Eve, I just didn't have enough time to make it convincing enough.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by morm

We were specifically instructed not to do anything crazy so I felt that would qualify as crazy.

That's a fair point. Posing as the Seer might have been construed as suicidal behaviour, which was off limits. Although it might be argued in the alternative that, as long as there was reasonable doubt (and therefore not obviously suicidal), then it was legitimate for a secret Cobbler to pretend to be the Seer.