WW XXXXI: With a Twist

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Something I realised while re-reading... Noggie and Mac's accusations against each other look way too convenient. Now that would be a very nice tactics for such bold players like them- suspect the fellow wolf quite vocally and even vote him on Day 1, then maybe drop the suspicions later...

They both just took up suspecting each other so easily, as if it had been decided beforehand.

Aganzir, I've thought of that too. Their reactions do seem over the top. I'm not ready to vote for either of them yet, though, but I'm watching them.

On that note, what about the possibility that Boro and Kath are both wolves?

Then there's:

Shasta –Still looks wolfish, but is he too obvious?

The Saucepan Man –Is his defence of Shasta too prompt? Are his vague insinuations about people too sneaky? (I admit to bias on that one.) He's giving me a strange vibe, but I've never played with him before... I don't know.

Mormegil –I don't like his strange, self-contradictory accusations of Farael and Rikae... or the way, when I mildly drew attention to the Farael accusation, Morm blew right up.

At the moment I'm wavering between Morm and Shasta. I could be persuaded to vote Boro– or maybe even Kath (or Mac... or Nogrod...). We'll see.

I have to go now. I'll be back later to vote.

[Valier]

Ok sometimes I just hate computers, I was half way through my list and explanations and bang I hit something and I went back a page and lost everything.....Ugggg

Well since now my time is even more limited I will try and explain myself as best I can. I know my reasons may not always be that good, I can only try. I like to read and observe how people interact with each other and their reactions to different situations. So saying that, my list of suspects is made up of people who I just don't quite get. Something seems furry about them. For now I think that in some way these 6 stand out to me in some way that don't feel good.
My list goes from most suspicious to least.

Nerwen
Shasta
Mormegil
Macalaure
Isabellkya
Kath

Other than that there are a few I think, for now to be Ordo's, such as Legate, Aganzir and Farael. But that could change quickly I am sure. everyone else I am not quite sure of yet, I will be back in a few hours at least to get a vote in.

[Kath]

Back quickly as I've discovered I won't have a chance to vote before the deadline tomorrow. So:

++NERWEN

She was my top suspect as of my last post for her jumpiness and her confused explanation of her early theories.

Really goodnight this time, and merry christmas again!

[Nogrod]

Funny to see how things evolve... Just look closely if you have time and follow the thing...

Originally Posted by Mac

I find it somewhat strange that you discourage considering him (=Legate) too strongly this early on. On this day, we all will probably have to vote because of weak reasons in the end, simply due to the nature of Day 1, but if the strongest of those weak reasons point towards a 'stronger' player, I'm all for lynching that one.

Interesting, I'm agreeing what Mac says here is his stance: it's absolutely the same principle I have...

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm familiar with Nogrod's usual line of reasoning - however, in his reply to me he seemed to be expressing not so much a "spare the vocal for now" attitude as a "spare the elite/the good players" one, and in the process, suggesting we shouldn't even make note of any suspicious activities on their part at the time being.

Now please, where did this elaboration come from? Not from anything I said. So from where?

Originally Posted by Farael

I am unsettled about his (parapharsing someone else) "elitist" approach where he dismisses off-hand accusations against "useful" villagers on the basis that they could be an asset later on.

Is this from something I wrote or something you read from someone else or which you crafted with your mates?


So I'd be glad to hear where I did say that I'm willing to leave all "elite" players - whoever they might be and with what grounds they could be chosen in this kind of village - without scrutiny and just frantically run for the quiet/unexperienced... whatever you wish to claim? Show me that post please. For that's the most stupid guideline to play I've ever heard!

I quess I've said this a thousand times but I seem to need to say it once again.

If we have nothing but slight hunches we should vote for those who try to hide and stay away from the fray during the first Day(s) (as later they will become real timebombs who can devastate the whole village), but if we have something better let's go for anyone whom we actually think is guilty. I didn't say we shouldn't consider Legate or any other. I said that with that "evidence" or cause to "raise eyebrows" I wouldn't go on lynching him (and that was pretty early in the game if you remember).

Now my main suspect was Mac toDay. If there is anything like elite - your word guys, not mine - he surely belongs to it. And I do still think he could be guilty of wolvery, and I think it would be good for the village to see him dead. So how can you say that I'm not considering "stronger" players while I'm at Mac's hairy tail?

But looking at this word-twisting I've cited up there I think I might have other suspects as well.

There were some other points made I thought should interest us all. I'll come back to them in a moment.

[Rikae]

Well, it's really very simple, Nogrod. I noted something Legate did which I found suspicious, and you responded:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

He's a valuable player for the village and I would leave him be on this Day unless something more drastic comes to the fore from his part.

This seemed like an argument against voicing suspicions of "valuable players" because that is all I had done. I hadn't said anything remotely like "we should lynch Legate", I merely said he seemed overcautious.
What you quoted was my elaboration of that to Boro, and though I found your (apparent) reasoning questionable, I didn't suspect you - then.
I don't think I've ever seen you this defensive before, and actually, it begins to worry me. I'm used to not only a more talkative, but a calmer Nogrod. Why so edgy all of a sudden?

[Farael]

Come on Noggie we've been playing together and we all know you have a bit of a sweet spot for experienced players. I don't blame you, guys like Morm, Legate, SPM can be quite a great asset if they are not wolves...

And yes, I made it clear I was paraphrasing somoene else with the word "elite" but I felt it summed up that train of thought quite appropiately. I still think this is your normal playing style so I'm not particularly suspicious of you over that alone, but you are acting a little edgy.

Regardless, I'm afraid that I am passing out (I didn't sleep at all last night) and I don't know if I'll be up tomorrow in time for a vote, so here goes it

++Shastanis

I know, I have a weak case against him, but right now the only other person who is worrying me with his defensiveness is Nogrod and I don't feel I'm THAT convinced yet to add another vote to his bandwagon.

[Boromir88]

So, here's what I'm going to do...

--Kath

Now please, where did this elaboration come from? Not from anything I said. So from where?~Nogrod

I believe Rikae was responding to my explanation about your typical behavior. Whatever it's worth, unless Nogrod you want to come out and say you are a wolf, I won't be voting for you. I think it'll be either morm or The Might for me (I'll get to that more in a bit).

So I'd be glad to hear where I did say that I'm willing to leave all "elite" players - whoever they might be and with what grounds they could be chosen in this kind of village - without scrutiny and just frantically run for the quiet/unexperienced... whatever you wish to claim? Show me that post please. For that's the most stupid guideline to play I've ever heard!

This is why I said we need to communicate better...things like this wouldn't happen if we thoroughly explained ourselves.

And that's why I'm mighty suspicious of those who are sticking to their guns this early. It's narrow-minded, and unnecessarily so. Sure, we have to vote, but there's nothing wrong with being a slight bit apologetic.~Eomer

I apologize when I lynch someone who is innocent, other than that...nope they won't get an apology from me.

I seem to recall Morm having a generally touchy sort of style. I'm interested in hearing the opinions of those who have played with him more often.

Morm is typically more calling for death/aggressive...here he seems conservative, like he doesn't want to commit to anyone. He's done a fairly good job of tossing around admittingly weak accusations at...Farael, Nerwen, Rikae, and myself...some other comments by morm that get my gut a churning:

On the other hand, Rikae, in her two posts, seems rather overly eager and antsy to throw suspicion all over, much like a wolf would do.

The bold is my emphasis, but I never like that...it reminds me too much of Aristotle's form of reasoning:

All wolves throw suspicion everywhere
Rikae is throwing suspicion everythere
Therefor Rikae is a wolf.

But there's lots of problems with this thought...for instance

All cats have tails
Maximillian has a tail
Therefor, Maximillian is a cat (Max is my cocker spaniel for anyone who doesn't know).

See the problem there? Sure wolves throw around suspicion, but so do many ordinary innocents. And maybe I'm mistaken, but it just seems like Morm's been throwing around more accusations than Rikae.

The Might hasn't posted too much, but that's not what makes me uneasy about him...he seems far too jolly, I mean it's nice to be receiving merry christmas' with the holiday hours away, but its like an attempt to appear friendly and buddy up. Call me the Grinch, I know in truth TM is wishing us a merry christmas, but the well-wishing in this village...just looks like an attempt to be friendly.

[Valier]

Ok well after a pretty good read, I've decided

++Nerwen

since all I picked up from her posts was references to other games...no really that was all I got. Nothing useful, seems weird. (to me anyways)

(MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!)

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I noted something Legate did which I found suspicious, and you responded:

This seemed like an argument against voicing suspicions of "valuable players" because that is all I had done.

I can't see your point here. Sorry. Maybe we talk a different language then? Check the bolding I have made to my post you quoted. How can you read that in the way you post in your earlier post referring to the very same paragraph:

Originally Posted by Rikae

in his reply to me he seemed to be expressing not so much a "spare the vocal for now" attitude as a "spare the elite/the good players" one, and in the process, suggesting we shouldn't even make note of any suspicious activities on their part at the time being.

??? Okay. A communication breakdown or then you do this on purpose which means you're a wolf.

I don't know about the calmness issue here. I tend to get somewhat upset when the wolves start to encircle me in the broad daylight. I think that is quite natural. If I were a wolf and noticed you getting the votes after my mates had framed you I'd say exactly the same: "why do you look so defensive Rikae? Well. hmm... that's surely something to note". You see the point? Quite easy to see it as wolvish.

There are four wolves here doing their dirty bussiness... just a reminder.

~*~

Okay... this was what I was writing when I saw Rikae's post.


Why I consider Mac might be a wolf?

When he came in to the game there were almost twenty posts made and what he did was to concentrate his whole post on me - not even mentioning another name there.

That's not so bad as such.

But what he had to say? Nothing.

He threw forwards all those terms like "rubs me slightly the wrong way" (without any clarification where that came from) and "you raise my eyebrow there" (referring to my sentence where I said I'd be happy to hear if Legate had any reasons to believe the pre-game banter was of any importance - which I had strongly denied basing to my experience).

Then he goes to add this "There's little point in discussing them (= the "twists") now. I know we yet don't have a lot else to talk about, but still", referring to my first post, second of the whole game!

So what is this? Why is he doing this? "But still"???

And you dare to post this afterwards...

Originally Posted by Mac

Note also the way he shortened my post in his quote to make it look less like a careful early day one comment and more like a baseless accusation with no points! (check 82 and 113, please)

Now this is ridiculous. Your points? Points?

Yes I cut your post as I tried to reveal what your post was all about. Nothing but fabrication (check above).

If it would have been a "careful early Day1 comment" you would have discussed a couple of people posted that far, made points to and fro etc. But it wasn't like that.

So it's much a do about nothing. In the meantime it's a post that tries to make me look bad, intentionally and calmly. That's where I smell the rat. In the intent which leads to fabricating a post to paint someone black out of thin air.

I know I'm an easy target on Day1 as I tend to get involved and thence talked and thence on the lynch-line. The wolves have tried this very same procedure a few times already before (once they bandwaggoned me in bright daylight and got me lynched).

But I play this game to get involved. That's the game to me.

It sometimes demands some self-defence before going to sleep as I also like to play this game and do not wish to die on Day1.

To win the game as a wolf? Post once, at most twice a Day in the beginning. Do not say anything that is not approved by the majority. If you attack, take a victim who is easy to lynch (someone who involves her/himself and thence gets talked about). Always look you're nice towards most of the village as people are prone to vote for someone who has voiced a concern towardfs themselves...

But that's not the way we innocents win.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by EggNogrod

But that's not the way we innocents win.

"We innocents"? Seems to me someone's a bit hasty to reassure everyone that they're innocent, themselves. Why now, all of a sudden, when most of the votes are on Nerwen anyway?

I'd also like to ask Farael what he thinks he's picked up on me. All I've done is be more active.

[Nogrod]

My top suspects now are Rikae and Macalaure. It would also fit tp to make them wolves together... I know he's a romantic deep inside.

And even if I have stated my "case" against Mac in quite strong terms, were I forced to decide between the two now I would probably vote for Rikae.

The next ones on my list...

I'm not ready to drop Shasta either even if Spm has a point about him being a bit too comfortable lynch. I see where we could all be going wrong with him but I can't deny he acts suspiciously and it would be a disaster to let him win just because he talks and walks like a wolf but we don't believe it.

Nerwen is a hard one. There are things I think feel bad in her posting and there are ones that call to me that we would lose a bright and helpful villager if we lynched her.

Isabell also makes me wonder still. She seems to be on top of things quite nicely but still posts veery carefully without actually pointing at anywhere. A bit too carefully I'd say if you compare the sophistication of her arguments on "bluffing tools" and their general use...

If my count is right it's now:

Nogrod 2 (Mac, Spm)
Nerwen 2 (Kath, Valier)
Shasta 1 (Farael)
+ Boro voted and retracted on Kath

It means twelve votes to be cast (+retractions). We'd need one or two more candidates to make this effective. With four wolves having both their votes and their ability to PM during the Day this would be too easy for them.

Like Nerwen (sic) pointed out, we should check things and not only trust what others say - I think I have a few nice examples of that up there... So even if one or two or three agree with something don't go with the flow. The wolves really fooled the villagers to vote as they wished in the last game threesome and now there is four.



I'd suggest adding Rikae, Mac or / and Isabell there.

Or do you have better suggestions?

[mormegil]

I'm back and I have read to Boro's post 124 and it seems rather odd to me that he is blantantly causing, in my mind, a great deal of confusion. The whole seer point was brought up and I didn't really think he would be so obvious if he were a seer. Boro is an incredibly bold player who would definately play a bluff like this if he were a wolf hoping to smoke out the true seer, thinking the seer might be a bit rash and reveal him/herself prematurely. Of course, it could be that Boro is simply an innocent and is provoking reaction. I would think the latter to be true but with his quick vote of Kath, who hasn't acted overly strange to me, it adds a bit to the overall suspicion.

I will post more when I have read a bit more.