WW XXXX - The scouring of the Shire, vol.2

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Alright, some views on the current situation.

I see many people speak about Lilla Greenhand here as being suspicious. Well, for myself I can say she seemed more or less genuine to me at the beginning and that this image is beginning to dissolve slowly, as I said before. The opinions she holds in her #223 could make me suspect her more: given her overall behavior, she seems to follow certain long-time suspects, and she holds to them whatever the case. Also, she seems to defend morm, which, in the case he were a were a were a were wolf (sorry, that was the keyboard), could point to her as a pack-mate, and vice versa. But the main thing are the long-time suspects, as I said - bite and hold, maybe once the bit of flesh will fall off. That moves her to the orange zone for me.

However, what strikes me as terribly wolfish was Sally's post:

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

P.S. I just realized that Morm voted Volo. So chain of events is Sally votes Morm, Volo finds Sally suspicious for picking on Morm, Morm votes Volo. Unless my logic is hugely flawed, that means that it is unlikely that both of us are wolves, Morm and I that is. Because A: why the heck would I vote him both days so vigorously, unless I am either incredibly stupid or incredibly clever, B: the same for Morm's actions today in a way, voting someone who finds me suspicious is either ballsy or idiotic, C: okay I can't think of a C right now but that's alright I'm sure someone else will analyze this post in a bit anyway.

And even the rest of it. I don't see that she would be as much attacked upon, but look what she does! "It is unlikely that both of US are wolves" - what is that supposed to mean? I would understand if she said that about someone else. I would understand if she said that at the point when, let's say, morm revealed a wolf and she were accused. But this? Why? How? What?
I simply don't get this comment. I said before what I thought about her posting, and I tried to be reserved because I had problems with not being suspicious on her because of her style even if she were innocent. But I cannot resist now and switch her into the red alert zone. Unless there appears another candidate in my red zone, or unless there is any voting crisis and threat upon someone whom I consider innocent, I'll probably vote her toDay.

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy

[Aganzir]

++ Greenie

[Macalaure]

Brinniel looks very helpful with her analyses. (20+ pages? *bows*) What I usually like about analyses, is that they often tell you more about the analyser than about the analysed. Unfortunately, most of Brinn's conclusions are lacking a bit decisiveness, which make them less helpful in this regard. I'm wary.

Some good points have been raised about Sally.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

The way Menel asked Rikae to elaborate what she found suspicious with Mac looked to me like he was asking it on behalf of a fellow wolf so that Mac would be able to fix his behaviour without being noticed.

I don't take advice on these matters. As can be seen in the last game, if I'm a badly playing wolf, I want to be a seriously badly playing wolf.

And finally: after reading what he said today, I feel better about Legate. But the Eye is still on him.


After about two straight hours of werewolf reading, I think I need to rest my brain for a while now. I'll be back soon and think about who I will vote for.

[A Little Green]

Well, what can I say?

Originally Posted by Legate

given her overall behavior, she seems to follow certain long-time suspects, and she holds to them whatever the case. Also, she seems to defend morm, which, in the case he were a were a were a were wolf (sorry, that was the keyboard), could point to her as a pack-mate, and vice versa.

Follow certain long-time suspects? Hmmm... talking about Lommy, right? Well, that might be due her behaviour staying pretty much the same all the time. Why change my opinion of her if she does not change?
Defend morm? I don't see that. I've said he looks innocent, even a couple of times, but surely if we were "pack-mates" I wouldn't do anyhting that obvious unless it was absolutely vital.

What else?

Originally Posted by Lommy

This might be a bit ridiculous point, but I think Little G's way of using the -smiley is very wolvish. I really can't explain it, but somehow it always makes me shiver when she uses it. I think she uses it in a slightly apologetic way or to emphasise she's no threat to anyone.

Well, you're right about that being a ridiculous point at least I'm afraid I can't make a valid defence for my use of smileys, sorry.

The same goes for my giving overall wolvish vibes. What comes to asking way too much, that might be due to a rather peculiar aim of trying to understand people's points before making conclusions on them...

Being too friendly, eh? Well, I'm afraid I can't really defend myself in that either. Is it overly weird and suspicious to be friendly?

Having no opinion of my own? Well, I admit I have been wary of accusing people, mainly because nothing that has been said in here has convinced me enough to have me believe someone actually guilty. I would feel weird to start accusing people before being certain of their guilt. I suppose I should be content with mere vague suspicions, then. However, I'd feel like being very unfair if I started hot-headedly accusing people based on some gut-feelings or the words X used to say he'll be off for the rest of the day...

PS. No laughing smileys in this one. Content now, Lommy?

EDIT: x-ed with Mac, The Might and Volo

[The Might]

Just to keep the votes in mind both for myself and for you:

A Little Green -3 (Feanor, Kath, Aganzir)
Volo - 2 (Shasta, mormegil)
mormegil - 1 (Sally)

Which now makes me quite confused. Because I too thought that mormegil was a bit fishy, but as Sally seems quite wolvish after that confusing post I am not sure what to believe, since she did vote for him.

This definitely makes me think of morm as a probably innocent one, then again I hope this won't prove to be a mistake.

One hour to the deadline left, I'm off to learn some physics, but I'll be back at a quarter to ten approximatively to see what the final discussion will bring. (quite excited, as it's the first one I take part in)

[Farael]

Darn it, I just lost a really long post I was working on... guess we'll have to re-write it.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

P.S. I just realized that Morm voted Volo. So chain of events is Sally votes Morm, Volo finds Sally suspicious for picking on Morm, Morm votes Volo. Unless my logic is hugely flawed, that means that it is unlikely that both of us are wolves, Morm and I that is. Because A: why the heck would I vote him both days so vigorously, unless I am either incredibly stupid or incredibly clever, B: the same for Morm's actions today in a way, voting someone who finds me suspicious is either ballsy or idiotic, C: okay I can't think of a C right now but that's alright I'm sure someone else will analyze this post in a bit anyway.

I'm making no comment on my potential wolfishness really because it's not worth my time to be honest. Just pointing out that if one of us is lynched or killed and revealed as a wolf, the other is most likely not a wolf. (Which is me by the way the non-wolf me yes me i'm an ordo! sorry quick plug for kicks and giggles) Just for reference. (That sounds hugely suspicious but I'm tired so I can't really explain it any better right now.)

Red flags are flying, alarm bells ringing, dogs barking, Nazghul wailing and Mt. Doom is in deep turmoil.

I have never seen a comment that looks so badly as a half-baked attempt at either killing someone by suicide (let's face it, if we kill her and she turns out a wolf, we'll HAVE to kill Morm) or the clumsiest attempt at distancing herself from Morm.

After all, no-one would be so "ballsy" (to quote her) as to make that very statement! And besides, "It is not worth (her) time, to be honest" to make a claim on her innocense.

GIMME A BREAK

It's a shame that I don't get a second vote.... that last statement alone propels her MUCH higher up my list than Greenie who has been consistently clueless throughout the game. Besides, here's a comment that makes greenie look innocent.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Lastly, a few words about Little Green. She seems like a class example of a newbie wolf. She goes along with the popular suspects and sticks to the one suspicion she's had during all the game. She also seems to pretend no one suspects her at all and doesn't react at all to the accusations against her. That's exactly what I did in my second game ever when I was evil. It is a very common wolvish mistake, one that especially inexperienced wolves tend to do. So (Aganzir, you may gasp now, since you've been waiting for this ), Little Green, I give you a piece of advice, if you're innocent, start defending yourself against the false accusations. You're one of my top suspects right now and I will most probably vote you. You're doing no good to my opinion of you by discounting all the accusations towards you. I give you a chance to make me change my opinion of you: defend yourself in a credible manner and if I'm convinced, I will refrain from voting you (at least toDay). A credible defense may change other people's views of you as well.

I don't know you folks, but this to me sounds like the folowing:

"Greenie, I am in a situation where I have to vote for you, even though you are an Ordo"

Note: The Seer would never be on such situation, since (knowing Greenie's ordishness) she'd avoid talking herself into a cornier voting-wise

"Now, I don't want my voting for you to come back and make me look wolfish, therefore if you give me a valid reason to avoid voting for you I will take it and look my flip-floppy self.... if not, I will have "proven" that I can't be a wolf by this previous 'advice' post"

Really Loomy has just shot up the threat list like a Balrog falls from the bridge of Moria.

Finally, I would like to apologise in advance if I'm wrong, but doing a set of lists like Brinniel did is a perfect strategy for a wolf with time to do such thing. My apologie is due to the fact that if she's an Ordo she did bust her rear-end to help us out and I'm suspecting her anyway.

Let's face it, what better way than to look absolutely innocent than by spending HOURS analysing other people? However:

Her conclusions are weak IMO... sure, she's noting what other people said (which we can all do by using the Search function) but after that she hasn't come up with a good idea of who may be a wolf.

Furthermore, she claimed that she'll only post "important" posts, and thus opening the way to present a biased picture of what happened so far. And we all know that many people rely on those "analysis" posts rather than reading through "20 pages" worth of notes.

Therefore, Brinniel may very well be an extremely cunning wolf here.

However, of the three mentioned, my "threat" list is as follows:

Satan's A Loser (and unfortunately, if she turns out a wolf Morm will look bad 'cos of her... but right now, I don't have a strong suspicion about Morm)
Loomy That post is just AWFUL... I understand a little flip-flop Loomy style, but that's a major fault.
Brinniel specially if Rikae winds up being furry.

Edit: Cross-posted with everyone after Volo's last.

[Meneltarmacil]

I have now gone back and read the posts of A Little Green.

She strikes me as somebody who has failed to notice a couple of important things or is intentionally ignoring them.

First, she continually asks what is so suspicious about morm, despite the fact that reasons for suspicion have been given already. Second, she doesn't seem to understand why I'm being careful about voicing opinions and why I've made a couple of jokes about not being eaten.

The first point, as stated earlier, could indicate a morm-Green partnership.

The second part I will answer here. I am being careful with my opinions because stating every minor suspicion of mine early on in the game is the main reason my ancestors were lynched or eaten in those scenarios. This happened because said behavior was perceived as a way of pointing the innocent in the direction of the gallows. I've already addressed the jokes, so there is no need to repeat myself here.

Now I have also noticed morm making similar arguments against me based on the jokes. This agreement between him and Green is troubling.

As is the mysterious tendency for the two of them, along with a wolfish-looking Rikae to attack Lommy. I don't really know what to make of this issue, but perhaps somebody else might.

Something that must be pointed out about A Little Green: Both of my reasons for suspicion could easily result from inexperience. Number One could result from an unfamiliarity with mormegil's playing style while Number Two could happen to anyone who doesn't know about the frequency of lynches and wolf-killings in my history. Since A Little Green does seem to be kind of new here, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt for now and go with

++mormegil

[Macalaure]

15 minutes til deadline and many votes still to come in. Where is everybody? I don't like to point it out again today, but we're in danger of a double-lynch again...

[Volo]

It's either Lily or Sally for me, but since voting Sally would be rather risky and hurried at this point...

++ A Little Green


EDIT: Xd with Mac

[The Might]

As I promised I am back so 4 Green, 2 Volo and 2 morm
I would have voted for Sally, but as no other votes for her exist, makes little sense. Or will anyone vote too?

[A Little Green]

Fine. Not much time now, and I very much doubt this is going to be of any significance, but

++ Volo

[The Might]

Well, guess that Sally will live for another Night which quite disturbs me as I suspect her much more then Green at the time.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

"Not much time marine, so listen up. I'm opening the hangar door..."

I can already see the votes flying around like mad. Based on previous suspicion,

++sally

EDIT: x-ed with Mac and Volo. Volo, have you waited a minute, maybe you would have had a reason

[Macalaure]

Sally -> morm
Farael -> Rikae
Shasta -> Volo
morm -> Volo (Volo 2, morm 1)
Fea -> Lily (Volo 2, morm 1, Lily 1)
Kath -> Lily (Volo 2, Lily 2, morm 1)
Aganzir -> Lily (Lily 3, Volo 2, morm 1)
Menel -> morm (Lily 3, Volo 2, morm 2)
Volo -> Lily (Lily 4, Volo 2, morm 2)
Legate -> Sally (Lily 4, Volo 2, morm 2, Sally 1)

left: Lommy, Lily, Kath, Brinn, Might

I'd prefer Sally over Lily. But I won't do it without support.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Farael

Furthermore, she claimed that she'll only post "important" posts, and thus opening the way to present a biased picture of what happened so far.

I'm sorry...if you want I could go back and analyse again, this time with all details and posts included. After all, I did take notes on everything; they're on my notepad, if you could see.
I honestly didn't add every little detail because I was tired, and I had already spent enough hours analysing. I don't think it would've change my conclusions at all, though had I left them in. Anyways, doesn't everyone's analysis turned out biased? That's just how it is, I'm afraid.

Okay, I honestly meant to return earlier, but I napped much longer than planned. Anyways, I'm quite sure I'll be voting for Green in a moment; I still find her arguments too fabricated...and she's way too careful.

EDIT: X-ed with last three people

[Brinniel]

Since I've made my decision and to avoid a last minute voting frenzy, I'm doing this now:

++A Little Green

EDIT: X-ed with Mac

[Macalaure]

Then it is decided.

++A Little Green

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Mac! Kath already voted.

[Thinlómien]

Well, I think three of our wolves are morm, Sally and LiGre. They just form a weird triangle and are all quite suspicious. I could vote for any of them toDay.

Originally Posted by LG

Defend morm? I don't see that. I've said he looks innocent, even a couple of times, but surely if we were "pack-mates" I wouldn't do anyhting that obvious unless it was absolutely vital.

You might, just because of that. Ever heard of double-bluff? Besides, I don't know what you've been thinking, but if you and morm are indeed both wolves, you might even have considered it vital for you to step out and claim he's innocent...

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Having no opinion of my own? Well, I admit I have been wary of accusing people, mainly because nothing that has been said in here has convinced me enough to have me believe someone actually guilty. I would feel weird to start accusing people before being certain of their guilt. I suppose I should be content with mere vague suspicions, then. However, I'd feel like being very unfair if I started hot-headedly accusing people based on some gut-feelings or the words X used to say he'll be off for the rest of the day...

Ai! This sounds both all too sincere and all too wolvish at the same time.

A Little Green's defense or herself sounded more sincere than anything she has posted for a while. (That, I'm afraid, isn't very much, though.) I still think it is very probable that she is furry, but I might give her the benefit of doubt for one day and vote morm or Sally instead. Anyway, I think we should lynch some of those three and I'm most definitely going to vote one of them. (Which one, I'm not sure.)

Originally Posted by Farael

"Now, I don't want my voting for you to come back and make me look wolfish, therefore if you give me a valid reason to avoid voting for you I will take it and look my flip-floppy self.... if not, I will have "proven" that I can't be a wolf by this previous 'advice' post"

I don't quite see the logic here. Why would anyone assume a wolf couldn't have said what I said?

edit: mass xed