Who, in The Lord of the Rings, was the most effective liar?

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Given the difference in powers and whatnot I would have to say Wormtongue as his 'powers' were rather limited and finite yet his decite accomplished a great deal towards his cause. He nearly fooled an entire kingdom and lacking Gandalf he would have been successful.

Your right about Grima almost fooled the ruler of an entire Kingdom, but he didn't succeed. It seems that Grima's only acconmplishement was to hold back Theoden from taking action against Saruman at the time. Besides, Grima was mearly a puppet for Saruman's master-plan, and Saruman was in turn a puppet for Sauron's master-plan. So you see, it all comes back to Sauron no matter on how you look at it.

Originally Posted by Raynor

Well, isn't the Second Age too early to be considered in this thread?

It dosen't say anywhere that we just have to be proned to focusing on achievements done in the Third Age.

And, considering the state of Ar-Pharazon, it wasn't that much of an accomplishment. Saruman, the Jack-of-all-trades, with his Voice, is capable of achieving the same, in my opinion.

Sauron destroyed an entire island, the homeland of the Numenoreans, the greatest fighting men of the age. Now if that's not an accomplishment I'd like to see what is.

You say that Saruman was capable of doing the same to the island of Numenor. He very well might have been able to, but he didn't. Therefore that makes Saurons acheivments all the more amazing, because no-one in the history of Middle Earth has done such an amazing feat.