Silmarillion-movie?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

This is from the FAQ on the Tolkien Estate website (almost certainly written by Adam):

The Estate exists to defend the integrity of J.R.R. Tolkien’s writings. Christopher Tolkien's work as his father’s literary executor has always been to publish as faithfully and honestly as possible his father's completed and uncompleted works, without adaptation or embellishment.

Are there any plans to produce a feature film from The Children of Húrin ?
There are no plans of this nature in the foreseeable future.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Rune

hmmm are you sure that it is actual a true desire for a movie. . .I have always thought it more of a thing where you think "I would love to see that" and since you know that you are not going to get transportet into a paralel univers where this takes place, then you imagine how it would be like to watch this in a movie. . .

I think this is only due to the prominence of movies now - people have always visualised the stories they've read or been told. Its just that now, with so many books being automatically turned into movies readers mentally project those images onto a movie screen - actually, if you think about it, what you're doing there is visuallising not the scene itself, but yourself, in the cinema, watching it on a screen...

Originally Posted by StW

davem ... it is not paranoia for a professional to feel it is wise not to go on a public record making statements that could alienate a future employer. Perhaps you may have heard the old saying "do not bite the hand that feeds you". I do not think it was JRRT who first coined that but it is widely known.

But this is still speculation on your part. Its clear that the Estate favours imagery that doesn't over emphasis the 'dark' & ugly side of Tolkien's creation, or that fixes one particular image of the characters - for 'officially authorised' images. This is hardly equivalent to the 'knock on the door at midnight by the Estate's thought police' that you're trying to imply....

Again, you pretend that the Estate is not what it is. Do not fool yourself for a minute into believing that if the estate was involved in a SIL movie that they would immerse themselves into countles production and story details quickly becoming the bane of any directors existence.

No, I'm not 'fooling myself' into any such thing.. The point I was making is that no studio is being forced to bid for the rights & no director is in the situation of having his family held at gunpoint under threat of death unless he makes a Sil movie, while the callous Estate, under the iron thumb of CT declares 'Let them perish! I care not - you shall never commit my father's work to celluloid!'

Nobody has to make a Sil movie. The Sil writings are the property of the Estate & they can do what they want with them. They have an absolute right to lay down any demands they like to potential film-makers, & the film-makers have an absolute right to say 'Sorry, that's too restrictive - we can't work under those conditions.'

And then they go their seperate ways.

What you have to keep in mind here is that the studios & film-makers here are looking simply for raw material to exploit in order to make money, not to produce a work of high art, & if that means taking a work like CoH, bowdlerising it, changing the ending, having Turin played by Adam Sandler & giving Glauring a middle-eastern accent & sticking a turban on his head they'll happily do it. If the Estate (ie CT) decide that, not needing the money, they don't want to hand over something they consider precious to a bunch of money grubbers who know, down to the last penny, 'the price of everything & the value of nothing' without some degree of creative control, I can't see any problem with that.

[Lalwendë]

It's not fair to criticise the art in CoH for not having loads of monsters, as they're not really in Alan Lee's style. He is known for being subtle, and often hides characters in the depths of his paintings so that you really need to look for them (kind of a Middle-earth "Where's Wally?" if you want to look at the fun side of this ). However Tolkien 'hid' characters himself in his own artwork, so Lee is following in a tradition. The landscape is always the central thing, bigger than the people who live in it, which brings across the feeling of 'epic' - note how Lee cleverly only shows us a part of Orthanc as if to emphasise just how monumental the tower is.

He is also a very quiet, modest man, and I think his art reflects his personality, including in the muted colours he chooses to make use of.

[Sauron the White]

from davem

The point I was making is that no studio is being forced to bid for the rights & no director is in the situation of having his family held at gunpoint under threat of death unless he makes a Sil movie, while the callous Estate, under the iron thumb of CT declares 'Let them perish! I care not - you shall never commit my father's work to celluloid!'

You certainly have a dramatic flair for making these broad almost cartoonish statements that completely misrepresent differing opinion.

from Lalwende

It's not fair to criticise the art in CoH for not having loads of monsters, as they're not really in Alan Lee's style.

I do not disagree with your characterization of Lee's style. However, perhaps you could explain what happened with the gorgeous cover illustration that we first saw for CofH which featured Glaurang, then somehow vanished and did not even make it into the interior of the book?

Anytime the subject of the Tolkien Estate comes up in these parts, I get the idea that there is a small group who will do anything possible to get on Christophers christmas card list. I say that tongue in cheek ---- at least partly.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

from davem
You certainly have a dramatic flair for making these broad almost cartoonish statements that completely misrepresent differing opinion.

I'm not sure what point you were making re the Estate. The simple (& indisputable as far as I can see) fact is that no-one is being forced to make a Sil movie, the owners of the rights (the Estate) don't want to see movies made, & there is absolutely no reason a movie, or movies, should be made.

However, perhaps you could explain what happened with the gorgeous cover illustration that we first saw for CofH which featured Glaurang, then somehow vanished and did not even make it into the interior of the book?

Not wanting to speak for me better half, but its my understanding that Lee himself decided against that cover (a version of it, sans Glaurung, does appear in the calendar) for the simple reason that it depicts Glaurung & Mablung rather than Turin himself. It would be odd if a cover showed two secondary characters....

Anytime the subject of the Tolkien Estate comes up in these parts, I get the idea that there is a small group who will do anything possible to get on Christophers christmas card list. I say that tongue in cheek ---- at least partly.

Now, while not denying that I would dearly love a Christmas card from Christopher, I think that's highly unlikely, whatever I may happen to say about him on an internet forum....

The real point here though is that you seem to have some kind of animus against the Estate in general & CT in particular, which seems to have arisen (from what I can see) purely because some of us don't think the movies are the greatest creation in the whole entire history of the human race, & because CT has decided he doesn't doesn't want the covers of his father's books to be covered in images of mighty thewed barbarians dismembering Orcs, or scantily clad elf maidens about to be eaten by Balrogs.

[Sauron the White]

The original cover was by far the stronger cover - IMO. The one they went with is so ho-hum. You seem to be saying that Alan Lee picks the cover - and while he may have had some input in that, I think others higher up on the food chain most likely make those decisions.

from davem

The real point here though is that you seem to have some kind of animus against the Estate in general & CT in particular, which seems to have arisen (from what I can see) purely because some of us don't think the movies are the greatest creation in the whole entire history of the human race, & because CT has decided he doesn't doesn't want the covers of his father's books to be covered in images of mighty thewed barbarians dismembering Orcs, or scantily clad elf maidens about to be eaten by Balrogs.

Another great example of your penchant for exaggeration, hyperbole and overstatement. You should really be a politician since you have an amazing talent for completely misrepresenting any argument of the opposition. The previously discussed original cover for CofH by Alan Lee had no barbarians dismembering ORcs, no elf breasts bouncing ala Frazetta, or even a Balrog in sight. Of course, you knew that when you wrote it.

[davem]

Originally Posted by StW

The original cover was by far the stronger cover - IMO. The one they went with is so ho-hum. You seem to be saying that Alan Lee picks the cover - and while he may have had some input in that, I think others higher up on the food chain most likely make those decisions.

I'm not sure that your own opinion on the 'original' cover art can be used as proof that CT sent the boys round to AL's studio & put the squeeze on him. AL has stated (in the Amazon.com interview he gave)

However, I prefer not to get too close to the characters because the author is delineating them much more carefully than I can, and I'm wary of interfering with the pictures that the text is creating in the reader's mind.

In the illustrations I tried to show some of the fragile beauty of the landscapes and create an atmosphere that would enhance the sense of foreboding and impending loss. I try to get the setting to tell its part in the story, as evidence of what happened there in the past and as a hint at what is going to occur. My usual scarred and broken trees came in handy.

Unless, of course he was speaking under duress.......

You should really be a politician since you have an amazing talent for completely misrepresenting any argument of the opposition. The previously discussed original cover for CofH by Alan Lee had no barbarians dismembering ORcs, no elf breasts bouncing ala Frazetta, or even a Balrog in sight. Of course, you knew that when you wrote it.

I honestly don't know what your objections are, so it would be difficult for me to misrepresent them. You seem to be constantly accusing CT & the Estate of 'threatening' artists & seeking to control what they produce - as if they're some kind of 'mafia'. As far as I'm aware all the Estate has done is decide they don't want the kind of lurid & trashy covers you find on the worst kind of fantasy novels.

As to the 'Glaurung' cover, in my opinion it was a beautiful landscape but it was not right. Glaurung is not the central character of the story, & should not have been the focus of the cover - Turin should obviously have been the central figure on the cover, as its his story. Now, you could either show a 'brooding' picture of Turin, to capture the mood of the story, or you could have a painting of Turin killing Glaurung (giving away the ending) or an 'action' shot of Turin in combat - which is hardly Lee's style.

Look, let's say the cover choice was a collaborative decision between AL & CT - what's the problem ??? That's what happens in the publishing industry. An artist submits his work for approval & both the writer & the publisher make the final decision (in John Howe's book 'Myth & Magic' he shows a painting he did for the cover of Pullman's Subtle Knife - a beautiful picture, but the publishers decided against using it, because it wasn't what they wanted).

Alan Lee is a very successful artist, & doesn't have to work for the Estate if he's unhappy with the way they behave. Its not a case of 'paint the pictures we tell you, or you'll never paint another picture'.

Could you please set out, in clear terms, what you think the Estate is really like & what, exactly, you think they are doing 'behind the scenes'?