Silmarillion-movie?

[Sauron the White]

from davem

The point I was making is that no studio is being forced to bid for the rights & no director is in the situation of having his family held at gunpoint under threat of death unless he makes a Sil movie, while the callous Estate, under the iron thumb of CT declares 'Let them perish! I care not - you shall never commit my father's work to celluloid!'

You certainly have a dramatic flair for making these broad almost cartoonish statements that completely misrepresent differing opinion.

from Lalwende

It's not fair to criticise the art in CoH for not having loads of monsters, as they're not really in Alan Lee's style.

I do not disagree with your characterization of Lee's style. However, perhaps you could explain what happened with the gorgeous cover illustration that we first saw for CofH which featured Glaurang, then somehow vanished and did not even make it into the interior of the book?

Anytime the subject of the Tolkien Estate comes up in these parts, I get the idea that there is a small group who will do anything possible to get on Christophers christmas card list. I say that tongue in cheek ---- at least partly.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

from davem
You certainly have a dramatic flair for making these broad almost cartoonish statements that completely misrepresent differing opinion.

I'm not sure what point you were making re the Estate. The simple (& indisputable as far as I can see) fact is that no-one is being forced to make a Sil movie, the owners of the rights (the Estate) don't want to see movies made, & there is absolutely no reason a movie, or movies, should be made.

However, perhaps you could explain what happened with the gorgeous cover illustration that we first saw for CofH which featured Glaurang, then somehow vanished and did not even make it into the interior of the book?

Not wanting to speak for me better half, but its my understanding that Lee himself decided against that cover (a version of it, sans Glaurung, does appear in the calendar) for the simple reason that it depicts Glaurung & Mablung rather than Turin himself. It would be odd if a cover showed two secondary characters....

Anytime the subject of the Tolkien Estate comes up in these parts, I get the idea that there is a small group who will do anything possible to get on Christophers christmas card list. I say that tongue in cheek ---- at least partly.

Now, while not denying that I would dearly love a Christmas card from Christopher, I think that's highly unlikely, whatever I may happen to say about him on an internet forum....

The real point here though is that you seem to have some kind of animus against the Estate in general & CT in particular, which seems to have arisen (from what I can see) purely because some of us don't think the movies are the greatest creation in the whole entire history of the human race, & because CT has decided he doesn't doesn't want the covers of his father's books to be covered in images of mighty thewed barbarians dismembering Orcs, or scantily clad elf maidens about to be eaten by Balrogs.

[Sauron the White]

The original cover was by far the stronger cover - IMO. The one they went with is so ho-hum. You seem to be saying that Alan Lee picks the cover - and while he may have had some input in that, I think others higher up on the food chain most likely make those decisions.

from davem

The real point here though is that you seem to have some kind of animus against the Estate in general & CT in particular, which seems to have arisen (from what I can see) purely because some of us don't think the movies are the greatest creation in the whole entire history of the human race, & because CT has decided he doesn't doesn't want the covers of his father's books to be covered in images of mighty thewed barbarians dismembering Orcs, or scantily clad elf maidens about to be eaten by Balrogs.

Another great example of your penchant for exaggeration, hyperbole and overstatement. You should really be a politician since you have an amazing talent for completely misrepresenting any argument of the opposition. The previously discussed original cover for CofH by Alan Lee had no barbarians dismembering ORcs, no elf breasts bouncing ala Frazetta, or even a Balrog in sight. Of course, you knew that when you wrote it.

[davem]

Originally Posted by StW

The original cover was by far the stronger cover - IMO. The one they went with is so ho-hum. You seem to be saying that Alan Lee picks the cover - and while he may have had some input in that, I think others higher up on the food chain most likely make those decisions.

I'm not sure that your own opinion on the 'original' cover art can be used as proof that CT sent the boys round to AL's studio & put the squeeze on him. AL has stated (in the Amazon.com interview he gave)

However, I prefer not to get too close to the characters because the author is delineating them much more carefully than I can, and I'm wary of interfering with the pictures that the text is creating in the reader's mind.

In the illustrations I tried to show some of the fragile beauty of the landscapes and create an atmosphere that would enhance the sense of foreboding and impending loss. I try to get the setting to tell its part in the story, as evidence of what happened there in the past and as a hint at what is going to occur. My usual scarred and broken trees came in handy.

Unless, of course he was speaking under duress.......

You should really be a politician since you have an amazing talent for completely misrepresenting any argument of the opposition. The previously discussed original cover for CofH by Alan Lee had no barbarians dismembering ORcs, no elf breasts bouncing ala Frazetta, or even a Balrog in sight. Of course, you knew that when you wrote it.

I honestly don't know what your objections are, so it would be difficult for me to misrepresent them. You seem to be constantly accusing CT & the Estate of 'threatening' artists & seeking to control what they produce - as if they're some kind of 'mafia'. As far as I'm aware all the Estate has done is decide they don't want the kind of lurid & trashy covers you find on the worst kind of fantasy novels.

As to the 'Glaurung' cover, in my opinion it was a beautiful landscape but it was not right. Glaurung is not the central character of the story, & should not have been the focus of the cover - Turin should obviously have been the central figure on the cover, as its his story. Now, you could either show a 'brooding' picture of Turin, to capture the mood of the story, or you could have a painting of Turin killing Glaurung (giving away the ending) or an 'action' shot of Turin in combat - which is hardly Lee's style.

Look, let's say the cover choice was a collaborative decision between AL & CT - what's the problem ??? That's what happens in the publishing industry. An artist submits his work for approval & both the writer & the publisher make the final decision (in John Howe's book 'Myth & Magic' he shows a painting he did for the cover of Pullman's Subtle Knife - a beautiful picture, but the publishers decided against using it, because it wasn't what they wanted).

Alan Lee is a very successful artist, & doesn't have to work for the Estate if he's unhappy with the way they behave. Its not a case of 'paint the pictures we tell you, or you'll never paint another picture'.

Could you please set out, in clear terms, what you think the Estate is really like & what, exactly, you think they are doing 'behind the scenes'?

[ninja91]

As much as I think many of us would enjoy seeing a Silmarillion movie, we must cede that the general public would not be exactly crazy over a history of Tolkien's fantasy world. Let's face it: movies are made because the maker wants to make money. And if he cant, there will be no movie. The Silmarillion, I dont think, could not be a box office smash. It seems like the kind of story that would be best watched as a film/documentary, similar to Ken Burns' "The Civil War" and "The War: World War II" drama/documentaries.

[Sauron the White]

Could you please set out, in clear terms, what you think the Estate is really like & what, exactly, you think they are doing 'behind the scenes'?

And just how am I suppose to tell the world "what the Estate is really like & what they are doing behind the scenes".

You ask for something that cannot be delivered to you. But then, you knew that when you wrote the words.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

And just how am I suppose to tell the world "what the Estate is really like & what they are doing behind the scenes".

You ask for something that cannot be delivered to you. But then, you knew that when you wrote the words.

I asked what you think they're like, & what you think they're doing. You seem to have spent a good few posts on this thread almost, but not quite, accusing them (& CT in particular) of being control freaks, threatening the careers of artists, intimidating anyone who gets in their way & sundry other offences. All I'm asking for is clarification. As far as I can see all the Estate has done is state what kind of covers they want on the books, & decide they don't want to sell the movie rights - both of which they have a perfect right to do & neither of which is actually hurting anyone. Add to that that the Tolkien Trust, which they also administer, makes regular & generous gifts to a wide number of humanitarian charities & organisations, & I think you have a pretty decent bunch of human beings who simply care about the way JRR Tolkien's work is presented to the world.