The Truth of the Uruk-hai

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Good. Really nice input now from everyone. To avoid confusion, I'll just put in three of my main questions now (you may try to put an answer to them, or just leave them be and go on in the discussion. I also hope my usage of the terms "Uruk" and "Uruk-hai" have not created misunderstanding, I divided them just for technical purposes of being clear). The questions are connected together, answer to one means answer to the others, but they are supposed to bring together the answerer to noticing all facts.

1. Were the Uruk-hai like Uglúk (not the "half-orcs" - for avoiding confusion, imagine Uglúk as a specific example of the race) somehow crossed with Men or not?

2. Were the Uruk-hai of Isengard the same as the Uruk-hai of Mordor?

3. Could all the "big Orcs" go well with the light?

My own answers - waiting for someone else's agreeing or disagreeing:

1. Nothing specifically says they were. They were almost man-high and went all right in the light. But the Uruk-hai of Mordor were also almost man-high. The question remains about the light.

2. See above and see below; but for starters, let's say this: if they were to differ in anything, it would have to be the origin of Isengarders, if they are indeed crossed with Men. If they are not, both the races are probably the same.

3. Now that's just it. There is that statement of Treebeard, and I think we can agree with his wisdom collected through the ages, at least in this case surely.

Originally Posted by Treebeard

It is a mark of evil things that came in the Great Darkness that they cannot abide the Sun; but Saruman's Orcs can endure it, even if they hate it.

This, for me, is a signal that the Orcs of Saruman are the only ones who can go quite well with the Sun. The lesser goblins are afraid and exhausted, the greater goblins are exhausted a little bit more, but the Uruk-hai of Isengard have no problem and they are the only ones. If this is true, then this would be a symptome of different origin. The Orcs of Sauron are just Orcs of Morgoth, ultimately, from the same origin. Morgoth was Sauron's master, all that comes from Sauron is just another use of the original things of Morgoth. Sauron's Uruks are upgraded Morgoth's Orcs. Saruman's Orcs are a new race: created by Saruman alone. (Technically speaking. Of course, if Saruman indeed crossed Orcs with Men, he still had Morgoth's Orcs to begin with - ultimately, all evil streams from Morgoth. But Saruman has his own input in the work, where Sauron had none or very little. Sauron uses Morgoth's ways* to enhance Morgoth's creatures, Saruman uses Saruman's ways to enhance Morgoth's creatures.)

If Treebeard is right, then Sauron's Uruk-hai are not of the kind to stroll whistling under the Sun. With that, #3 is answered: no. If that's right, then there is something different in the Isengarders. With that, #2 is answered: no. If that's right, the only logical conclusion of the problem is the one to which Treebeard comes when he continues his formerly quoted speech:

Originally Posted by Treebeard

I wonder what he has done? Are they Men he has ruined, or has he blended the races of Orcs and Men?

Either of these would be answer to #1. And that's, technically, why I think the Uruk-hai of Mordor are indeed in the position to say "we are something more" - they are right (whether it's good or bad, even from the view of Orcs, is another matter).

So that's about it.

*i.e. the ways Morgoth taught him