The completed Tale of Gondolin was published 13 years ago?!

[davem]

Originally Posted by johnboy3434

"Not Tolkien's work?" How many liberties did this guy take? If it is fundamentally based on the actual text written by Tolkien, with nothing of drastic import added or removed, then it is Tolkien's work, just not as Tolkien would have published it. . Same case with Lewis. He put together a group of texts by J. R. R. Tolkien, using his own judgment (the quality of which is understandably disputable) to decide on how to go about it. While I'm sure this is not the way Tolkien would have published the Tale of Gondolin, the fact of the matter is that he did write it, regardless of how it turned out.

'Fundamentally based on' could mean pretty much anything. You can't cut & paste together bits of an author's work, written over a period of 4 or 5 decades, change bits that don't 'fit', with nothing more than your own opinion & 'personal taste' for guidance, whip it off to a Vanity publisher somewhere to knock out 50 copies & then just expect it to be accepted & authorised for publication by the Estate. I've read some of Alex Lewis's writings, heard some of his talks &, God help me, I've even heard him sing some of his songs, & I can tell you that, while he's a halfway competent (if boring) scholar of Tolkien he's the very last person who should be allowed to edit together a text of the Tale of Gondolin.

Look, you, I, or anyone on here, could 'edit' together a 'complete' text of Beren & Luthien, whack it on Pandora & print out 50 copies. Would the fact that our effort was physically in print in book form be sufficient for the Estate to just pick it up & put it out with the JRRT monogram on the cover & new illustrations by Alan Lee?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

A comparison with The Children of Hurin is inapt: The Narn i Chin Hurin was a single work, the product of a concentrated effort over a few years, and consistent in narrative and style, even if some segments were not filled in (neither were they in the Long Tuor: the version in UT was to some extent also 'reconstructed' by CT). Whereas this pricey Gondolin project tries to merge two versions separated by nearly all of Tolkien's writing career, and the multiple revisions of history, mythology and language- it doesn't work.

Originally Posted by davem

'Fundamentally based on' could mean pretty much anything. You can't cut & paste together bits of an author's work, written over a period of 4 or 5 decades, change bits that don't 'fit', with nothing more than your own opinion & 'personal taste' for guidance, whip it off to a Vanity publisher somewhere to knock out 50 copies & then just expect it to be accepted & authorised for publication by the Estate.

Then let the bastards read it first and decide! My point is, would it really hurt to consider it? I think it's rather closed-minded to summarily dismiss it without even reading it, and fans would probably buy it. You keep on about how "this fan could write this" or "that fan can edit that." Well they didn't. This guy did, and, when you own a text that's going for $4,500 without receiving a penny, it wouldn't exactly be blasphemy to try and profit off of it, now, would it?

[davem]

Originally Posted by johnboy3434

Then let the bastards read it first and decide! My point is, would it really hurt to consider it? I think it's rather closed-minded to summarily dismiss it without even reading it, and fans would probably buy it. You keep on about how "this fan could write this" or "that fan can edit that." Well they didn't. This guy did, and, when you own a text that's going for $4,500 without receiving a penny, it wouldn't exactly be blasphemy to try and profit off of it, now, would it?

I wouldn't be surprised if CT had read it - though I don't see what that has to do with anything. It could not be published as Tolkien's work - for the reasons Mr Hicklin has given. If this work was to be given the go-ahead then where do you stop? It seems to me that this work cannot be considered genuine in any sense of the word. If Lewis' work gets the go ahead how could the Estate justify refusing to consider anything anyone knocks up which is 'fundamentally based on' Tolkien's writings?

Tolkien did not write a 'full' version of the Gondolin story (would that he had), so what you're asking to be made available is a version knocked up (with great love & respect I've no doubt) by 'some guy'. Are the Estate supposed to go through everything 'some guy' produces just to see if its 'good enough'? Again, I think you're being mislead by the fact that this version is available in a pricey edition set between two covers & mistaking it for an 'authoritative' published work. As I said, I could cobble together my own version of 'Gondolin' or Beren & Luthien & 'publish' it through Pandora & it would be available, in a nice shiny paper- or hardback volume for anyone to buy. That wouldn't make it significant or important - its just something anyone can do. If Mr Lewis wants to stick his 'fanfic' on the web he's free to do just that.

In short. If you did get hold of this book you'd have a 'nice thing' (I've seen it on sale at Oxonmoot & its certainly that - the illustrations are beautiful). But its not 'Tolkien'. Its a cobbled together, edited, altered, manipulated 'art work'. Authorising this would open the floodgates (as I said, how could the Estate accept this & reject other similar efforts?) & in no time you'd have shelves full of 'Middle-earth novels' along the lines of the Star Wars/Star Trek novels that fill the SF/Fantasy sections.

You seem to think this is 'genuine' Tolkien - & I'm not sure even Mr Lewis considers it that. Its not the BoLT version expanded. Its not the 'Long Tuor' completed. Its one individual's best shot at putting together a version of the story.

As for 'fans probably buying it' I suspect most Tolkien fans wouldn't.

[Lalwendë]

Whether Lewis did a good job or not of putting together his Tale of Gondolin is, I'm afraid, now by the by as he has blotted his copybook somewhat and the Estate ever authorising his work is as likely as little green men being found on the Moon now. There was a recent brou-ha-ha surrounding some reviews misleadingly submitted to Tolkien Society journals under pseudonyms involving Mr Lewis and his wife. There's no harm in me saying that as it's common knowledge amongst Society members. Also be careful where you buy from as a dealer is closely involved in selling their works and collectible Tolkien books for what in my experience are very high prices - which is not in itself wrong, but you can get these books for much less than the quoted prices.