The plants of middle earth

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I notice that to make up the length the woodwright had to join two pieces together- also that it's (to my mind) too skinny to be much of a shilleleagh.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli

I notice that to make up the length the woodwright had to join two pieces together- also that it's (to my mind) too skinny to be much of a shilleleagh.

Thanks, well there goes that theory for Lebethron, along with one of my short story ideas (there was a short story I was writng (non-tolkein) where a minor plot point involved a whisky barrel made of persimmon heartwood.)

By the way since the question of the mushrooms was broached I have another agricultural question which came up in a disagreement I had with someone. Though not stated implicity do you think that Tolkein meant to imply that hops are grown in Middle-Earth, based on the fact that beer and ale are made an drunk there. I am aware of the fact that hopping of beer is near nearly unversal but I am also aware that it is possible to make beer without hops. (as in St. Peters King Cnut) Hopping became a common practice in english beer around the late middle ages so its a bit unclear as to whether Tolkiein meant for middle earth beer to be hopped or not. What do you all think?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

My deduction is that Tolkien intended the Shire to feel like a late-Victorian English village- that's why hobbits drink beer, and I would expect that beer to be hop-flavored English ale, not lager, nor any ancient-world concoction.

[Lalwendë]

Yes you can make beer without hops - the hops simply add bitterness and extra flavours; without them, beer would be quite sweet and very yeasty. They were introduced to Britain around 1400, but beer-drinking was a well established pursuit before then Prior to the introduction of hops, other things would be used to add flavours, from the innocent such as Heather to the hallucinatory such as Wormwood and Henbane. Unhopped beer used to be known as 'ale' but in modern times 'ale' means beer that has been made with yeast that ferments 'at the top' in warm temperatures as opposed to 'lager' which uses the opposite process.

Almost all beer and lager now has hops in it including Ale - but you can get 'revival' beers which are brewed with herbs instead if you really search - you can sometimes find Heather Ale in Scotland, usually marketed by also telling you the tale of the last Pict who hurled himself to his death from the Mull of Galloway rather than tell the invading Scots the secret recipe for Heather Ale...

[alatar]

I know that this is off-topic, not being about plants and all, but I just wanted to finish off my thoughts about genetically engineering glowing trees (note that we would want the leaves to glow as the bark is like dead skin). You can see here how some 'mad' scientists are using glowing genes to make fish that detect clean water - or make cool pets - and so theoretically it's possible.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

All true, lal: I was just saying that *Hobbit* beer was in all probability very like what the goodfolk of Sarehole quaffed ca. 1900.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by alatar

I know that this is off-topic, not being about plants and all, but I just wanted to finish off my thoughts about genetically engineering glowing trees (note that we would want the leaves to glow as the bark is like dead skin). You can see here how some 'mad' scientists are using glowing genes to make fish that detect clean water - or make cool pets - and so theoretically it's possible.

And the madness continues. Seems that some scientists have created cats that express proteins that glow red under UV light, as seen here. Not exactly sure why, but I suspect that it has something to do with the possibility of Sauron returning, as His Ring actually is a cat.

What other explanation even makes sense?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by alatar

And the madness continues. Seems that some scientists have created cats that express proteins that glow red under UV light, as seen here. Not exactly sure why, but I suspect that it has something to do with the possibility of Sauron returning, as His Ring actually is a cat.

What other explanation even makes sense?

Sounds like the sort of market development strategy underwritten by Noma or by Hallmark Decorations.

Everyone knows cats have a predilection for exploring Christmas trees. I think these companies are simply exploring ways they could capitalize on this interest by turning cats into lit up tree ornaments themselves. Perhaps there could also be some sort of throwback to the light of the Two Trees being generated by the static electricity of cat hair.

Of course, if you want to associate Sauron with such companies . . .