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#1 |
Maundering Mage
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,651
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It's an odd question that we've spoken about before. To what extent are the orcs responsible for their actions? Are they always taught to hate and kill elves, men and dwarves? If they grow up believing this to be correct and were never taught contrary and are more or less forces into this are they responsible? No I don't think they are wholly responsible. I don't have the exact quote but I remember that Melkor creating the orcs was one of the greatest, if not the greatest, crime he committed. I think most of the culpability rests in him.
For example a parent has a child and teaches him a concept that most would view as 'evil' but the child is never exposed to the truth and is never shown the error of his ways. Is he responsible for errant actions? I would say no! It doesn't seem just to say that a being is responsible for adhering to a principle it has never learned.
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“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” |
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#2 | |||
Laconic Loreman
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Fenris Penguin
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#3 |
Wight
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Crickhallow
Posts: 247
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The orcs had only one purpose when they were created by Morgorth and this was to aid in his desctruction and plan of taking over the world in the First Age. Since the Orcs know only one way of life, I find it very hard to see them in any way redeemable.
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King of the Dead: The dead do not suffer the living to pass. Aragorn: You will suffer me. |
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#4 | |
Maundering Mage
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,651
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Quote:
__________________
“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” |
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#5 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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to contradict the view by many (including but not confined to ArathorofBarahir): Quote:
must be a possibility of redemption for any individual orc. As individuals and a society a long period of "detox" would presumably be necessary, but possible.
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The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.' |
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#6 |
Wight
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Crickhallow
Posts: 247
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Orcs take joy in causing death and destruction. They know what they are doing and therefore cannot be redeemed. Orcs are evil, plain and simple.
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King of the Dead: The dead do not suffer the living to pass. Aragorn: You will suffer me. |
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#7 | ||
Laconic Loreman
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Arathor, I'm afraid you are mixing the Orcs Tolkien created with the common stereotypical view of Orcs that is common in literature. See, Tolkien created Orcs that are much more complex and have the human feelings of individualism and free will. What you've said completely contradicts what we see Orcs are capable of doing in Tolkien's story.
First you disregarded Letter 153 where Tolkien directly says that even Orcs were not beyond redemption, also consider these... 1) The Orcs were certainly capable of rebelling against Morgoth and Sauron: Quote:
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Fenris Penguin
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