LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 09 - At the Sign of the Prancing Pony

[Guinevere]

What strikes me at second reading is that the "big folk" of Bree are really rather similar to the Hobbits... that's probably why they can live together so well. They are content with their lives in Bree and rather suspicious of anything unknown . Well, the only Bree men we really get to know are Barliman Butterbur (very hobbitlike, I think) and Bill Ferny (evil, but in a small, mean way)
I remember well, how intrigued I was at the first reading by the description of Strider. (btw the first sight of Strider in the movie is exactly like that: one sees only the gleam of his eyes from under the hood.)
Something else which makes me wonder now is the statement at the beginning of the chapter that "no other Men had settled dwellings so far west" and the description of the rangers as "mysterious wanderers" without a dwelling apparently. But some of them, at least, must have had wives and children, and all of them had parents: I wonder where those lived ? Where were Aragorn's parents living before his father died? Whither did Gilraen retire when she left Rivendell ? Is it nowhere mentioned, I wonder ?

And though I'm not from an English-spoken country I was delighted to recognize "Hi diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle" in Frodo's song. Btw , some people in a German Forum asked me in earnest if that nursery rhyme really had its origin in the LotR ! I think it's typical for Tolkien that he manages to make us think that ! ( Like "Atalantë" and "Avalonnë")
As HerenIstarion so rightly pointed out: the lore becomes folklore...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, what's this - I was wondering whether we skipped a chapter or something. Surely you don't mean there is nothing interesting about this chapter? At least for myself I could speak about quite a lot of things.

First, the beginning. I'm going to skip the current things and focus on the historical information. I find it very interesting that we are very plainly told that the Breelanders lived there already in the First Age. Well, why not, it's plausible and even logical, but still, it's interesting to actually fully realise it. Isn't it strange? Somewhat, this implies that Bree itself (of course in some different state) is a settlement far, far older than let's say Osgiliath, Barad-Dur, Minas Tirith, Umbar or Isengard (about such young places like Dale or Edoras I don't even speak). Maybe, who knows, even older than all the human settlements in Beleriand. Fascinating idea, isn't it? Beren and Túrin are running around Beleriand and performing their great deeds, but behind the mountains, the Breelanders still reside and wait. And wait. And wait. As the classic says, "the villagers won".

Also, there is one interesting piece of information that breaks one common stereotypical thought about the Hobbits. It's a slight remark, although it speaks very plain towards a reader.

There were probably many more Outsiders scattered about in the West of the World in those days than the people of the Shire imagined. Some, doubtless, were no better than tramps, ready to dig a hole in any bank and stay only as long as it suited them.

"Than the people of the Shire imagined" - and I could add "than most of the Tolkien fans are used to imagine". Normally, when someone says "Hobbits" to us, we think about the Shire and a little branch in Bree and its neigbouring villages. But here we are confronted with a view of many other Hobbits who live around there in the wilderness of ancient Arnor. Something that seems (at least to me) more like a desperate construction to back-up a crazy fanfiction or a bad RPG is actually true and put forward by the author himself. Interesting how easily one can slip into stereotypical thinking, eh?

Concerning Harry Goatleaf. He is the first character of the Breelanders the four travelers confront. He is just a minor character, but he has some depth - simlar to Fatty Bolger and all these folks who are left behind to emerge later. But in RotK we learn how he changes. I wonder - what was his stance now, at this time? Because I think him quite genuine and all right at this time. Or was he already doing something, like, what, spying for Saruman? Or was this just the time when he was "corrupted" - did the Black Riders simply scare him that much? I find his life story a very interesting question and if I were to be inspired by Esty, who wrote her fanfic about Folco Boffin, I would write about Harry Goatleaf. Maybe his story was tragic? Being afraid, maybe even of the loss of some who were close to him, he chose betrayal? A Gorlim of the Third Age?

Barliman Butterbur mentions Dwarves who are going West that just arrived this evening. And they indeed are sitting down there. But there is nothing else about them. Why? Wouldn't it be nice for the hobbits to, let's say, have a little chat with the Dwarves? And are the Dwarves actually ever mentioned there after that? I am not aware of it. When the nightly attack comes, the Southerners are concerned about the loss of their horses, but not a single remark about the Dwarves being angry - and a Dwarf could surely become angry and demand the innkeeper to pay for the loss - about losting their ponies, which they likely would have (as we know from Thorin&co.'s case).
And concerning the Dwarves' origin - I think they probably were some folks from Erebor or the Iron Hills traveling to the Blue Mountains, as that's the only logical explanation I can come up with. However, if anyone has any other ideas, I am listening.

A personal remark: The welcome the Hobbits get from Butterbur and Nob always make me wish to be there and to eat with them. However dramatic the circumstances are, the Prancing Pony is still a piece of home, and it's also the last one for a long time to come.

Merry is once again great in this chapter. I have strong sympathy for him here, as well as in the following chapter. He decides not to go down ("too stuffy") and goes for a nice evening walk, and yet he experiences probably the coolest thing of all of them (coolest = from the silly view of the person who is all excited about adventure. That's not meant to say that Merry is, that's meant to say that I'd be ). More about this in my thoughts to the next chapter.

And, the last thing. This chapter is full of tension of anticipation, there are things like the mysterious shadowy figure that jumped over the gate, strange remarks from Harry, Strider and Butterbur that remain unexplained, and the chapter itself ends with Frodo's appointment of two private meetings - and the one with Butterbur is by nature even more curious than the one with Strider, because, what can such a figure like the jovial innkeeper have to say to Frodo? Not speaking at all about the three men who left the room after Frodo's disappearance. In short, if there is anything close to the genre of a detective story in LotR, it is this chapter.

And a P.S. about Hey Diddle Diddle. I must have heard the song first about ten years ago (while I read LotR still quite a long time before that), and only after several years I actually once, listening to it, started to wonder whether it - or some modification of it - is not what Tolkien means by the words that some of it is remembered until today. But when did I really discover that? Just now on this thread, of course. But I expected to find it.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Oops! It's a crazy week, I guess; I simply skipped posting about this chapter, having read it and gone on to the next one. I will post my thoughts later, when I can go back to remind myself of them. Thanks, Legate, for not following my example and for posting to this thread!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Let me add just one interesting thought that is pointed out in the Reader's Companion: The "squint-eyed ill-favoured fellow" says, 'If room isn't found for them, they'll find it for themselves.' This statement is eerily similar to the German idea of Lebensraum ('living space'), which was one of the reasons for the Second World War. We don't know, of course, where people felt their country was overly crowded in Middle-earth, but someone must have felt the need to spread out and take over other areas.

[Rumil]

Lets go for a beer, mine's a pint!

Well the party arrives at Bree, in hope of good food, a nice relaxing beer or six and a good night's sleep, oh dear, how wrong can you be.

First of all Harry Goatleaf, I thought of as a typical minor functionary jobsworth, being obstructive just for the sake of it, but then suborned by the bad guys. I reckon him as mean-spirited but in a small way, like the Sandymans.

Was the black shape that jumped over the gate Aragorn or a Nazgul? I feel I ought to know but can't remember at present.

Now to the Inn. I think here that JRRT was drawing on his vast experience of Oxfordshire pubs in this scene, specifically the peculiar feeling you get on entering a strange local. I guess for those unfamiliar it is best illustrated by 'The Hanged Man' in 'American Werewolf in London'. On entering such an unknown establishment of refreshment one looks for the little clues to tell you how the evening is going to go, decoration is no guide, punters' apparel is informative, broken furniture and windows not encouraging and the entire pub going silent, turning around, staring at you with a 'You b'aint from round ere arr youse?' definitely a bad sign (more-or-less on a par with Alabama banjo-playing). Add to this a situation where half the clientele are twice your size and there is considerable ground for nervousness.

Happily the initial phase goes well, lodgings and refreshment are secured. (To digress the 'it comes in pints!' line from the film was priceless). Now as you no doubt know, when one has a reasonably friendly welcome and a couple of beers, especially after a taxing journey, guards may be let down and further beverages consumed. Unfortunately Pippin 'had taken as much ale as was good for him' as the Prof so enchantingly puts it, forgetting himself which leads to much further embarassment.

After Frodo's unsuccessful attempt to cover up, the reaction of the crowd is very interesting, they assume that some magic has been done and get very suspicious. No doubt the Bree-men have survived since the 1st Age by avoiding 'meddling in the affairs of wizards' and have little desire to start now.

Now as to the crowd, the dwarves are to be expected, as Legate says probably travelling between Erebor and the Blue Mountains. The party of men from the South is more interesting (naturally South here means anything south of Bree, not Haradrim!). The squint-eyed southerner we know to be one of Saruman's spies recruited by the Nazgul, and later on there is a comment on similar figures amongst Saruman's 'halforcs' though probably he's an eighth-orc or whatever. The rest of the party claim to be 'honest' and if not a deceit, who are they? Dunlendings perhaps, though they speak the common tongue and seem more 'civilised' than the Dunlendings we meet later. Maybe Rohirrim from the far-Westfold being squeezed out by Saruman's incursions? Alternatively men from some unknown settlement of Enedwaith or Minhiriath, perhaps in the area of now-ruined Tharbad? Tricky one!

On Lebensraum Esty, I think that its a bit of a strange idea, for as far as we know Minhiriath and Enedwaith are pretty much deserted. There appears to be plenty of free land available for the taking (population densities in ME being very low after all). To speculate maybe Saruman's support has led to the Dunlendings expanding their territory and forcing out isolated older settlements of men??

On Outsider hobbits, I quite like the idea of wandering hobbitry living out in 'the wild', perhaps re-occupying some of the ancient hobbit settlements from the migration period. Gentlehobbits of the road indeed, though rude people might call them tramps!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Was the black shape that jumped over the gate Aragorn or a Nazgul? I feel I ought to know but can't remember at present.

Definitely Aragorn; he later says that in the following chapter. The shadow was only meant to look sinister, but it wasn't, of course. That by itself shows that it was Strider

The rest of the party claim to be 'honest' and if not a deceit, who are they? Dunlendings perhaps, though they speak the common tongue and seem more 'civilised' than the Dunlendings we meet later. Maybe Rohirrim from the far-Westfold being squeezed out by Saruman's incursions? Alternatively men from some unknown settlement of Enedwaith or Minhiriath, perhaps in the area of now-ruined Tharbad? Tricky one!

Tharbad was ruined a long time ago; unless someone survived in its ruins (which, from the way it's put, is improbable; also don't forget that Boromir passed there and obviously met no one, and had people been living there even until very recently, surely at least a remnant would have been found there, even if most of the inhabitants went away). However it may be that these folks came from Enedwaith or Minhiriath, or Dunland, threatened by Saruman's "imperialism". They may be some simple Minhiriath folk threatened by increasing range of Saruman's operations (where would the Uruk-hai of Isengard get their supplies, right?), or even "dissidents" from Dunland, indeed, "escaping from trouble".

On Lebensraum Esty, I think that its a bit of a strange idea, for as far as we know Minhiriath and Enedwaith are pretty much deserted. There appears to be plenty of free land available for the taking (population densities in ME being very low after all). To speculate maybe Saruman's support has led to the Dunlendings expanding their territory and forcing out isolated older settlements of men??

Why not? There's the thing that probably also "evil things" were multiplying in the wilderness, and they wanted to live in a more secure place.