The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books > Chapter-by-Chapter
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-27-2008, 02:35 PM   #1
Rumil
Sage & Onions
 
Rumil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Britain
Posts: 894
Rumil has been trapped in the Barrow!
Eye We're all going down the pub!

Lets go for a beer, mine's a pint!

Well the party arrives at Bree, in hope of good food, a nice relaxing beer or six and a good night's sleep, oh dear, how wrong can you be.

First of all Harry Goatleaf, I thought of as a typical minor functionary jobsworth, being obstructive just for the sake of it, but then suborned by the bad guys. I reckon him as mean-spirited but in a small way, like the Sandymans.

Was the black shape that jumped over the gate Aragorn or a Nazgul? I feel I ought to know but can't remember at present.

Now to the Inn. I think here that JRRT was drawing on his vast experience of Oxfordshire pubs in this scene, specifically the peculiar feeling you get on entering a strange local. I guess for those unfamiliar it is best illustrated by 'The Hanged Man' in 'American Werewolf in London'. On entering such an unknown establishment of refreshment one looks for the little clues to tell you how the evening is going to go, decoration is no guide, punters' apparel is informative, broken furniture and windows not encouraging and the entire pub going silent, turning around, staring at you with a 'You b'aint from round ere arr youse?' definitely a bad sign (more-or-less on a par with Alabama banjo-playing). Add to this a situation where half the clientele are twice your size and there is considerable ground for nervousness.

Happily the initial phase goes well, lodgings and refreshment are secured. (To digress the 'it comes in pints!' line from the film was priceless). Now as you no doubt know, when one has a reasonably friendly welcome and a couple of beers, especially after a taxing journey, guards may be let down and further beverages consumed. Unfortunately Pippin 'had taken as much ale as was good for him' as the Prof so enchantingly puts it, forgetting himself which leads to much further embarassment.

After Frodo's unsuccessful attempt to cover up, the reaction of the crowd is very interesting, they assume that some magic has been done and get very suspicious. No doubt the Bree-men have survived since the 1st Age by avoiding 'meddling in the affairs of wizards' and have little desire to start now.

Now as to the crowd, the dwarves are to be expected, as Legate says probably travelling between Erebor and the Blue Mountains. The party of men from the South is more interesting (naturally South here means anything south of Bree, not Haradrim!). The squint-eyed southerner we know to be one of Saruman's spies recruited by the Nazgul, and later on there is a comment on similar figures amongst Saruman's 'halforcs' though probably he's an eighth-orc or whatever. The rest of the party claim to be 'honest' and if not a deceit, who are they? Dunlendings perhaps, though they speak the common tongue and seem more 'civilised' than the Dunlendings we meet later. Maybe Rohirrim from the far-Westfold being squeezed out by Saruman's incursions? Alternatively men from some unknown settlement of Enedwaith or Minhiriath, perhaps in the area of now-ruined Tharbad? Tricky one!

On Lebensraum Esty, I think that its a bit of a strange idea, for as far as we know Minhiriath and Enedwaith are pretty much deserted. There appears to be plenty of free land available for the taking (population densities in ME being very low after all). To speculate maybe Saruman's support has led to the Dunlendings expanding their territory and forcing out isolated older settlements of men??

On Outsider hobbits, I quite like the idea of wandering hobbitry living out in 'the wild', perhaps re-occupying some of the ancient hobbit settlements from the migration period. Gentlehobbits of the road indeed, though rude people might call them tramps!
__________________
Rumil of Coedhirion
Rumil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2008, 03:36 PM   #2
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
Legate of Amon Lanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumil View Post
Was the black shape that jumped over the gate Aragorn or a Nazgul? I feel I ought to know but can't remember at present.
Definitely Aragorn; he later says that in the following chapter. The shadow was only meant to look sinister, but it wasn't, of course. That by itself shows that it was Strider

Quote:
The rest of the party claim to be 'honest' and if not a deceit, who are they? Dunlendings perhaps, though they speak the common tongue and seem more 'civilised' than the Dunlendings we meet later. Maybe Rohirrim from the far-Westfold being squeezed out by Saruman's incursions? Alternatively men from some unknown settlement of Enedwaith or Minhiriath, perhaps in the area of now-ruined Tharbad? Tricky one!
Tharbad was ruined a long time ago; unless someone survived in its ruins (which, from the way it's put, is improbable; also don't forget that Boromir passed there and obviously met no one, and had people been living there even until very recently, surely at least a remnant would have been found there, even if most of the inhabitants went away). However it may be that these folks came from Enedwaith or Minhiriath, or Dunland, threatened by Saruman's "imperialism". They may be some simple Minhiriath folk threatened by increasing range of Saruman's operations (where would the Uruk-hai of Isengard get their supplies, right?), or even "dissidents" from Dunland, indeed, "escaping from trouble".

Quote:
On Lebensraum Esty, I think that its a bit of a strange idea, for as far as we know Minhiriath and Enedwaith are pretty much deserted. There appears to be plenty of free land available for the taking (population densities in ME being very low after all). To speculate maybe Saruman's support has led to the Dunlendings expanding their territory and forcing out isolated older settlements of men??
Why not? There's the thing that probably also "evil things" were multiplying in the wilderness, and they wanted to live in a more secure place.
__________________
"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
Legate of Amon Lanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:06 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.