Sport in Middle-Earth

[Osse]

I don't know... i think most liverpool hooligans already resemble orcs... cept i think uruks look better in tophats! (don't ask and I wont' tell)

It would be a pretty cool sight to behold. A mob of angry hobbits racing around throwing apples at the orcs, who in turn are chasing after the Elves with beer bottles and rubbish bin lids, little do the orcs know, but they are about to be nutted from the dark alley by a raucus bunch of Dunedain weilding clubs!!


Sounds familiar....

[Mithalwen]

OK - partly I found that the flags obscured sightlines thus making driving more dangerous, partly I found them a little agressive.... it is actually just sport not war...

It seemed to cross the line between patriotism and nationalism........

Plastic flags are inherently tacky. Especially when England is stencilled across them to prevent them being mistaken for the Finnish flag..... and how many people with them on their cars could put the Union flag the right way up?
Although I think the respect given to the flag in the US is a little OTT ... I felt it was disrespectful to write over it... use it for advertising ....... ugh.....

Disgusted of Tumladen Wells

[The Saucepan Man]

Banners depicting the emblems of realms are displayed in LotR in situations other than battle. From The Field of Cormallen:

And so the red blood rushing in their faces and their eyes shining with wonder, Frodo and Sam went forward and saw amidst the clamorous host were set three high-seats built of green turves. Behind the seat upon the right floated, white on green, a great horse running free; upon the left was a banner, silver upon blue, a ship swan-prowed faring on the sea; but behind the highest throne in the midst of all a great standard spread in the breeze, and there a white tree flowered upon a sable field beneath a shining crown and seven glittering stars.

And mounted upon Saucepan's car, red upon white, floated the cross of St George.

I see nothing wrong in displaying my national flag as a symbol of my pride in my country and to show my support for my national team on sporting occasions (it is mounted on the car's aerial, thus presenting no driving hazard). Personally, I think that the cross of St George is an extremely attractive device and I am proud to fly it. And, if it has "nationalistic" connotations, then I am happy to reclaim it on behalf of all who take pride in their country, while maintaining admiration and respect for other nations.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

With so much talk of banners and flags, isn't there a sport that involves banner waving? (Sorry, I don't know what it's called officially.) After this past weekend, I would send a few Greeks back to Middle-earth to help the more staid Gondorians practice...

[Bêthberry]

Oh, Estelyn, what if! Rohirrim cheerleaders. *shudders* Or would that be more a Dunlending thing? Can't imagine the elves getting all that worked up.

[Mithalwen]

Well I subscribe to the Orwellian distinction between patriotism and nationalism...and the few occasions where I have been actively ashamed of being British/English have been related to the behaviour of the followers of football..... I loathe football, I couldn't care less if England won in fact I prefer it if they lose because then people shut up about it.. ...... as if it really matters if one group of English overpaid morons can kick a ball in a net more often than a bunch of foreign overpaid morons ..... I couldn't even escape the &%*%$ world cup on a longhaul flight ......... And I don't think hating football makes me less entitled to my passport.......

The purpose of a banner was to be a rallying point of troops in battle.... the example you give is at a post battle celebration so I don't see a great distinction

[The Saucepan Man]

The White Tree device was not created simply as a banner for battle. It was a symbol of Numenorean identity, just as flags in our world are symbols of national identity. If being proud of my national identity makes me "nationalistic", then so be it. But I cetainly do not subscribe to the negative connotations of that word.

Aragorn was proud to be a Numenorean, and proud to lead his people. He displayed the White Tree device with pride. Yet he was far from "nationalistic" in the negative sense.

Personally, I like football. But that is only a very small part of what I am talking about. And I too am ashamed of the behaviour of some who follow it, but they are in the minority and the national flag is not (and should not be allowed to be) their exclusive preserve.