Most Tragic Figure

[Dininziliel]

1. Frodo & Gollum
2. Beleg & Gwindor

I did a quick & dirty reconnaisance of my previous (and very dusty) classical literature training--which means I did a quick search on the internet & in my big, fat, 30 lb. Webster's 3rd New (actually, not so new ) International Dictionary, which around here is known as the Final Word. According to the definitions given in each of those (very simply--a noble being brought low by situations/fate beyond his/her control), those people fit.

Frodo & Gollum need no discussion.

I always agonize a bit when Beleg & Gwindor appear--they are so noble, heroic, brave, and kind--yet they attach themselves to Turin and are brought to highly ignoble ends. Of the latter two, I'd say Gwindor is the more tragic because, knowing how he would be perceived, he still stood true to what he knew was right.

At any rate, all these characters remained steadfast in their chosen courses to the bitter end, and suffered bitterly for it. True, Frodo was healed in Aman, but before that he suffered greatly.

[Maédhros]

When I first opened this thread I had intended to name Finrod as the Most Tragic Figure. He is (in my opinion) the most noble and gentle of the Noldor who took part in the Kinslaying at Alqualondë. This evil deed was his tragedy, a fatal flaw which was in part his fault, in part the fault of others, and it was the means by which Sauron was able to pierce his disguise and eventually slay him.

Can you provide a quote that states that Finrod took part in the kinslaying at Alqualondë. I had always thought that he didn't take part in that.

According to Aristotle, if I recalled correctly Oedipus Rex is the perfect tragedy. Túrin is of course in many ways very similar to Oedipus. Túrin along with his family has to be one of the greatest tragedies in the legendarium.
Personally, I think that Maeðros is one of the most tragic figures. He took the Oath, and participated in the Kinslaying of Alqualondë, then he repented for the desertion of Fingolfin and waived his right to be the High King of the Ñoldor. He positioned himself in a place where the attack of Morgoth would fall heavily. He was of course hanged for ca. 292 years in Thangorodrim.
One could almost see how the Oath changed him, but the thing that I like about him is that when he took the leadership of the House of Fëanor, before the 2nd and 3rd Kinslaying, he gave the other side the opportunity to surrender the Silmaril. At the end, when he finally regained a Silmaril, IMO, he finally repented of his deeds and threw himself into the fire.

[Angry Hill Troll]

I agree with the nominations on behalf of Maédhros and Túrin, but for me the most tragic figure is Fëanor, and the Valar agree with me on this

And [the Valar] mourned not more for the death of the Trees than for the marring of Fëanor: of all the works of Melkor one of the most evil. For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and subtlety alike, of all the children of Ilúvatar, and a bright flame was in him. The works of wonder for the glory of Arda that he might otherwise have wrought only Manwë might in some measure conceive. And it was told by the Vanyar who held vigil with the Valar that when the messengers declared to Manwë the answers of Fëanor to his heralds, Manwë wept and bowed his head.

I think Fëanor fits the mold of a tragic figure by the extent of his fall from greatness, and in his own personality defects playing a critical role in his fall. Certainly his personality and rather complicated family situation made him much more susceptible to Melkor's machinations than any others of the Noldor. For me he seems rather reminiscent of Hamlet (well, except for the indecisiveness) just as Túrin does of Oedipus.

[doug*platypus]

You make a very good case, Angry Hill Troll. Most of us would shy away from placing Fëanor as a tragic figure. He was largely to blame for the suffering of many, many Eldar, and his good qualities are often overlooked. Mainly because there seem to have been so few of them!

Incidentally, if anyone is still interested, here is a link to the thread about the possible guilt of Finrod being associated with the Kinslaying:

Finrod and the Kinslaying

According to the definitions given in each of those (very simply--a noble being brought low by situations/fate beyond his/her control), those people fit.

Frodo & Gollum need no discussion.

I'm not clear on how these two could be considered as tragic figures. Dilinziliel, when was Gollum ever noble? And how was Frodo brought low? He may have ended up in a worse position than he started in, but morally he was in fact superior by the end of the story. The Aristotleian definition provided by Mister Underhill would not consider Frodo as a tragic figure, I believe.

[Gothmog]

Ok, I know that this may sound very strange, but what about Melkor, Morgoth?
We don't know much about the time before Ainurs song, but we do know that Melkor was the greatest of Ainur. He was one of Iluvatars creations and he wasn't evil to start with, he just wanted to create something that wasn't exactly as Iluvatar had planned. He didn't do it to destroy something, he just felt that there was something missing.

From being one of the greatest Ainur to become Morgoth, that must be the biggest downfall ever, if thats the definition we're going to use of "tragic".

Apart from Melkor then... After reading only the headline, I thought of Turin. After reading the threads (well, not all of them) a want to name Feänor too, I agree with Angry Hill Troll

Do you think Melkor is terribly wrong???

[Angry Hill Troll]

Gothmog, the thought of Melkor had crossed my mind as well. Thanks for suggesting it!

While reading the Ainulindale I felt quite a bit of sympathy for Melkor. All he was doing was being so in awe of the whole creation concept that he wanted to take part in it himself. Nor can we really blame him for being the way he was, since after all that was how Ilúvatar made him...

I think what is missing in the case of Melkor is that most tragic heroes either die fairly quickly after their "fall", or at least come to a transcendental moment of clarity, realizing their own faults and taking responsibility for the consequences of their misguided actions. Melkor never does acknowledge his wrongdoings, except as a ruse to corrupt Valinor, and by the time he finally dies, we the readers have long since run out of sympathy for him. Simply stated, he wore out his welcome as a tragic hero.

Also, one of Aristotle's points is that a good tragedy produces fear in the part of the audience, because what happened to the tragic hero (being undone by a combination of circumstances and one's own faults) could conceivably happen to them as well--after all, who is without faults? But Melkor's fall is unique: no other being was in a position to be the ultimate source of all that is evil in the world. To some extent the same applies to Fëanor as well--no other child of Ilúvatar could fall so far simply because no other was as great to begin with. But Fëanor was the first, and most poignant example, of the power of Melkor's evil to corrupt the Children of Ilúvatar in general . For this reason his fall strikes fear in the Valar (since they now realize just how much damage Melkor is capable of doing) and in the other Eldar.

Thoughts, anyone?