Father-names among the Noldor

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Galin

Indis preferred the Telerin-in-form Mother-name Findaráto for Arafinwe, Findaráto Sindarized in Middle-earth as Finrod, even though he stayed in Aman.

I don't think so. According to the Shibboleth, it was Finrod's [i.e. Felagund's] and Angrod's mother, Eärwen of Alqualonde, Finarfin's wife, who named them Findaráto, Angaráto in her native tongue (vs Quenya Artafindë, Artanga). Indis was a Vanya, why would she use Telerin forms?

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I don't think so. According to the Shibboleth, it was Finrod's [i.e. Felagund's] and Angrod's mother, Eärwen of Alqualonde, Finarfin's wife, who named them Findaráto, Angaráto in her native tongue (vs Quenya Artafindë, Artanga). Indis was a Vanya, why would she use Telerin forms?

Because she preferred the sound of Findaráto.

See HOME XV, or my post in the thread above, where this happened

"I chose "Finwe Arafinwe (aka Finrod)" as the Sindarization doesn't match. It matches the Mother-name Findaráto. In other words, both these parts were tongue-in-cheek, using the Inglor Felagund scenario."

Sorry to leady astray!

[Pitchwife]

Yeah sorry, I'd overlooked your 'tongue in cheek' comment to Hui above. But I still think Findaráto as a Mother-name for Arafinwë is untenable. On the other hand I could imagine Eärwen calling her hubby thus, and their children using the Sindarized form when talking to grand-uncle Thingol and his people.


By the way, if Felagund was renamed Inglor, what does that mean for Gildor Inglorion? Was he literally Felagund's son? I rather liked the bit about Felagund not marrying because he foresaw his oath to Barahir and its fatal consequence (also Amarië).


That's the thing about Tolkien - you can't change a name without changing the story.

[Galin]

Felagund was Inglor Felagund according to the first edition -- well not exactly, as the name Inglor itself didn't appear there for him -- but first edition: Finrod was the father of Galadriel and Felagund < named Inglor Felagund in the Silmarillion. You probably know this . . .

. . . but anyway, above I was just playing with giving Finwe's son (Arafinwe) a Father-name with Finwe, who stayed in Aman, and yet keep a Sindarized "Finrod" (House of Finrod) in Middle-earth . . .

. . . although Tolkien would be less constrained than I am, if he had desired to keep the first edition idea and work out all the names.

[Pitchwife]

Actually Tolkien himself could be remarkably uninspired in his naming of minor characters - cf. Gamling and Ioreth, whose names literally mean Old Guy and Old Woman in Norse and Sindarin, respectively.

[Galin]

I smiled when I found that out (Gamling, Ioreth). Point of view, I guess. Also I like Tolkien's Noldorin/Eldarin naming customs, and don't find that it makes Noldorin fathers "terrible" at naming . . . although I'm not sure Huinesoron wrote that without a smile.


An idea I often run into online is that Elves don't repeat names! It's far more complicated than that, and in general . . . they do! It's interesting too, that while Feanor's last two sons called each other Ambarussa, others called them Minyarussa and Atyarussa.

This is (in my opinion) good stuff folks!

[Galin]

We could have a scenario similar to this: "( . . . ) it was then still the custom for the father-name of a son to be a modification of the father's name (as Finwe/Curufinwe) or a patronymic (as Finwion "son of Finwe")." So Curufinwe wants his son's names to have Finwe in it.

Nelyafinwe -- straightforward enough "Third Finwe" . . . but note too, that every Father-name has a short form to go with it:

Nelyo,
Cáno,
Turco,
Curvo
and so on . . .

. . . and did Cáno (Maglor) have a "strong voice" as a baby? Or did Turco have a powerful grip? It's noted that Moryo was black-haired as his grandfather. In other words, even without the help of foresight, to me, these names seem quite possible as being based on observable things from birth.

Not that all names need be, of course. I can imagine some fathers liking a name "strong in body" for a son, whether the son turns out to be notably strong in body, or not.

Or a daughter!