The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-22-2013, 06:24 PM   #1
Zigūr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigūr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
Zigūr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigūr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boromir88 View Post
3. Why was Boromir permitted to join the Fellowship in the first place?

The simplest reason is the Fellowship was in dire need of strength. Time and time again, we see they are in need of Boromir's strength, and he was right in saying after leaving Lorien they would need his strength to get to the Tindrock.

While Boromir does reveal the idea of using the Ring as a weapon at the Council, I agree with those who said Elrond and Gandalf probably chalked it up to ignorance.
I agree with this argument the most. I think we should be cautious about attributing too much of a political angle to the decision to include Boromir in the Fellowship. He was an experienced soldier of great strength and hardihood who was going in the same direction as them anyway, yet would not attract attention the way a mighty Elf-Lord like Glorfindel would. He had also received the prophetic dream telling him to seek Rivendell, and I get the impression that in their dire state Elrond and Gandalf were willing to seek guidance from "fate" wherever possible. That being said, it seems that Faramir was "meant" to go, given that he experienced the dream first and on more than one occasion.
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried Éomer.
Zigūr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 07:03 PM   #2
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,521
Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigūr View Post
I agree with this argument the most. I think we should be cautious about attributing too much of a political angle to the decision to include Boromir in the Fellowship.
Yes, because whether Boromir was in the Fellowship or went back by himself, knowledge of Aragorn and his claim would have reached Denethor, and no amount of politicking from Elrond and Gandalf were going to make Denethor accept Aragorn's right. They might not have known Denethor would be so obstinate and it does help Aragorn to be able to travel with, and make a friend in Boromir, but I would call that more of a useful side effect and not the reason for his inclusion.

For as Faramir tells Frodo:

Quote:
"It does," said Frodo. "Yet always he treated Aragorn with honor."
"I doubt it not," said Faramir. "If he were satisfied with Aragorn's claim, as you say, he would greatly reverence him. But the pinch had not yet come. They had not yet reached Minas Tirith or become rivals in war."~The Window on the West
I think Faramir is correct in his assessment. Yes, it would only benefit Aragorn to make friends with Boromir (and it's not surprising Boromir would treat Aragorn with honor) but "the pinch" had not (and never did) come.

Nothing would have made Denethor relent. Not even Boromir coming to town fully embracing Aragorn. Denethor's love for Boromir was solely based on the unyielding belief Boromir was loyal to him, he was not a "wizard's pupil." Boromir would have returned to Minas Tirith with a "mighty gift", and Denethor had serious trust issues, even with allies:

Quote:
Thus pride increased in Denethor together with despair, until he saw in all the deeds of that time only a single combat between the Lord of the White Tower and the Lord of the Barad-dur, and mistrusted all others who resisted Sauron, unless they served himself alone.~ Appendix A: Gondor and the Heirs of Anarion, The Stewards
Well before this, even with the steward Ecthelion (Denethor's dad), Denethor was not very welcoming towards Gandalf. Ecthelion favored "Thorongil" and Denethor came to suspect Thorongil was really Isildur's heir and Gandalf plotted to use Thorongil to supplant him. Whether Boromir was in the Fellowship or not, Denethor would have kept his attention on Gandalf and Thorongil. I'll try to track down the reference in Unfinished Tales: The Palantir, but it talks of Denethor first viewing the stone after his wife died, because he was concerned about the future of his line and Stewardship.

Elrond and Gandalf might not have known all this, but I can't see any major political reason to include Boromir, other than a side effect of by travelling with Aragorn, it could only potentially help Aragorn's claim.

Quote:
That being said, it seems that Faramir was "meant" to go, given that he experienced the dream first and on more than one occasion.
I agree, but we shouldn't forget that with Boromir receiving a prophetic dream and deciding he should be the one to go, his timely arrival suggests he was "meant" to be there. As Elrond tells the Council "Boromir came to us in the early morning hours"...

This is just supposition, but it's always sounded like after being rather lost, Boromir finally stumbled upon Rivendell, and that he wasn't "brought" there by someone in Elrond's house who found him lost in the area. And in this way, it would appear he was worthy and meant to be in Rivendell on that specific date where "counsels" would be taken.
__________________
Fenris Penguin

Last edited by Boromir88; 12-24-2013 at 07:09 PM.
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:00 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.