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#1 | |
Wisest of the Noldor
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Quote:
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." Elmo. |
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#2 |
Wisest of the Noldor
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Anyway, I will not be voting yet. Too much of a risk.
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." Elmo. |
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#3 |
The Sweetest Spoiler
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
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Seconded. I will (theoretically) be around until deadline and have no intention of voting until it's more prudent to do so.
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"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.
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#4 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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If you're a decent troll, please come back before the DL - and it's a decent choice not to vote yet. I hope we can find something from back there toDay (at least I feel I have lost all touch on the last two Days).
If you're a Wizard, I hope you forget the DL... ![]()
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#5 | |
The Sweetest Spoiler
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
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Quote:
There have been two votes cast for Dun toDay. Assuming Rikae or Dun is a wolf, which one of them pretty much has to be, it's still entirely possible that we could lynch someone else, though I'm honestly thinking Dun is a good choice toDay. If he's innocent (which would make him a legitimate troll, and would make me quite cross), Rikae is pretty certainly a wizard. If he's guilty, then she's either a lovely and clever young lady or she's wolf-on-wolfing so hard that even Shasta would blush. Either is a possibility, and to dismiss the possibility that she is a clever scheming wolf is absurd. This is Rikae we're talking about. She knows how to play this game. She is absolutely capable of doing something crazy like this and getting away with it. x'd with Nog and Nerwen
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"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.
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#6 | |
Wisest of the Noldor
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Quote:
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." Elmo. |
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#7 | |
The Sweetest Spoiler
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
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Quote:
As for Brinn's comments, she could have been protecting Rikae because she had a hunch, or because of how upset Rikae got that one Day, or, yes, because she dreamt her. A seer has more information, true, but she is still a player just like the rest of us. If she went on just what she knew to be true, she would have tunnel vision so hard she'd run into a wall. Brinn still had to work from her own hunches, not just her dreams. We don't know what her dreams were. We can guess, but our guesses are exactly that, so we can't act purely based on what we think Brinn knew, because we may be wrong. And now I really, really need to take a few steps back before I join the tunnel vision club. I'll be back shortly-ish with thoughts on Nog, Nerwen, Kath, and Cop. Oh, and DunDunDun. ![]() x'd with Rikae
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"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.
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#8 |
Mellifluous Maia
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth
Posts: 3,489
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Well?
I mean, I certainly hope he's a wolf, but he might not be, and if not, lynching me toMorrow will guarantee the wizards' (your?) win. So you're going to need to give a reason for that statement. EDIT: X'd with Nog, addressed to Sally. |
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#9 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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I was reading backwards Brinn's posts (starting from the end of D3) but they are really hard to read. It seems she was playing it very safe, probably not presuming she would be killed that early.
I need to check the earlier ones also before trying to form any bigger picture about them. And now I need to run for some groceries and making a dinner. I'll be back in about two hours...
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
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#10 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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The last Days have been just crazy bandwagon-days: Days 2 & 3 were runs between innocents and Days 4 & 5 total Wagons for innocents. We have been playing this soo bad lately, well after D1 that is.
![]() There is little to read from there and I feel like abandoning my great plan of going them through all from the beginning to the end. But I do think we'd need to check a few things. On D3 the early wagon for Rikae (unknown) turned into Boro (innocent) and Morsul (innocent) -wagons. How did that happen? Also, how did the wagons for Gil (innocent) and Morsul (innocent) took air on Days 4 and 5 respectively? Are there any connections between the wagons or in trickering them (not just initiating them but especially in making them "wagons" in the first place aka. making other choices not worthwhile)? Also, I'd like to have Brinn's wordings re-checked. Not only what she said of Rikae as to check how much we can trust her innocence, but also whether there are any hints whatsoever as to whom she might have dreamt of. And Kath needs to be read more closely... The almost total ignorance or silence of everyone with her is kind of screaming at me at the moment as I realise it. EDIT: X'd with Rikae & Sally
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
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#11 |
Mellifluous Maia
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth
Posts: 3,489
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#12 | |
Shade of Carn Dűm
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 344
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Nog: If he's a Nog-wizard, we now know that he wasn't voting McCab in order to save Pom. However, he might have been doing it in order to set himself up to look better later, by sitting on the fence and seeming to suspect both of those two. Overall I'd say the new info makes him look a little better, but...
Quote:
Aside from that, McCaber seemed to suspect him... Rikae: I do have to agree with Nerwen that unless we get some serious new info on Rikae, if she was actually a wizard all this time, we're probably sunk as a troll village. Also, note how McCab went for her in post #210. Sally: #215 from her worries me in that she's jumping on the "innocent McCab" thing from Morsul and pointing out that Lottie said it first. I think the "innocent McCab" would be a great thing for wizards to use as ammo, knowing that of course, McCab really wasn't. Although in #217, she's still suspecting him on the grounds of Pom's reaction to his vote looking incriminating. Would that really be a safe thing for a wizard Sally to keep in people's minds? Anyway, those are just my thoughts so far as I look through the pages0 I have to mention, I have to vote within half an hour of now or not vote at all, and I'm still having trouble with my computer being slow in hot weather (although I think it's not at risk of damaging itself any more...), which is making going through the previous pages even slower. If I haven't voted within 40 minutes, you can safely assume there is no chance whatsoever that I'll be back toDay. |
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#13 |
Everlasting Whiteness
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So, SO sorry to be doing this on toDay of all Days ... but this is it from me. I am only just home and going straight back out.
+sally For reasons previously stated. Lottie said I was being 'typical innocent' by trying to make Morsul's vote for sally fit my wolf theory. No. I was saying that made Morsul less likely to be a wolf if sally was one. Well, Morsul wasn't a wolf. So sally. Really, really sorry for being all but a no-show.
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If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. |
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#14 | |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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Well, Day3 was not much of a help... if not helping to feel that Brinn was quite seriously defending Rikae when the spot was tight. And then got killed the next Night.
What happened on D3? Brinn comes to defend Rikae and to suspect Nerwen immediately after Rikae's self-vote and Nerwen's quick vote for Rikae. Morsul votes for Rikae while Zil echoes Brinn in no uncertain terms saying Rikae "logically would have not done that" and that he's "not buying it". Zil also suspects Nerwen's quick vote. After Rikae's and Nerwen's row things seem to settle down and most all think Rikae is not going to be voted that Day. Just for the sheer oddity and fun of it, I have to cite McCaber-Wizard here, one of Rikae's earliest and staunchest supporters during the row: Quote:
![]() Some (I think) decent points were made against Boro and he got voted by a few - and then those who didn't like Boro being voted went for Morsul. I'm not sure I wish to go through whole of the Days 4 and 5 the next... so a pause for thinking where or what to look. Anybody else out there?
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
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#15 |
The Sweetest Spoiler
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
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Holy crap. I've only now reached the end of Day 3. Thoughts on that coming soon, I guess, for I'm running out of time.
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"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.
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#16 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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One has to start on something then.
Reading things back toDay gives me these. Rikae - more or less needs to be innocent. She was so heavily defended by Brinn on D3 (and Brinn got killed the next Night) and there were some hints - even if not too clear ones that Brinn had dreamt of her, probably on the first Night (quite a believable choice). I can see scenarios where Rikae is a Wizard but well, one has to start with something: so probably not a wizard Nerwen - Her quick vote on Rikae is a bit odd and the consecutive votes of two Wizards on D1 could be seen as trying to help a mate - although in fairness' sake it must be said that it would have been very odd - and fun indeed - if the major suspects on D1 had been three (or even four?) Wizards!!! If the Wizards were going after Volo as a possible seer though (it is a possible scenario even if Rikae would be a basic troll as well), then she'd look very good indeed - and I do like that explanation as it puzzles me why they killed Volo who just screamed to be lynched and was not one of them (so a kill wasted?). Sally - Her vote for Pom on D1 would have been really daring for a mate (especially as McCaber was high on the agenda already). Then again her other votes have been mostly very careful indeed, while on D5 the timing of her vote was almost perfect to end up too many other candidates being fitted in (and it was actually McCaber who in five minutes sealed that). On the other side of the issue, she herself was the only person voted thus far beside Morsul. What Kath suggests kind of puzzles me though... yeah, Sally seems to have voted for Morsul three times out of five (then one time Pom and one time with everyone else for Gil) but does Morsul's innocence make her a Wizard? It could (the insistence on voting a generally suspicious player might be a safe Wizard-tactics), but does it (did she really vote a mate onD1 in such a situation?)? Some others in a moment.
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
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#17 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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Continuing...
Copper - Looks pretty genuine most of the time and then sometimes feels foul. Votes mostly early and in the way the general wind seems to blow. Then again the fact that two known Wizards voted for her almost simultaneously would speak good for her. It would be absurd and like a story of the decade if two wolves decided to try and look good and crosspost a vote for their mate thus making her a seroius contender to be lynched. So I need to say I'm relying Copper being more innocent than not. Kath - I'm really yet no wiser about her (I see I haven't read her posts toDay either - I try to fix that after I leave this post) - like none seems to be. That in itself should be creepy! On the other habd one could say that a victory scored while being a submarine is not a real victory. If she has posted substantially on Days 4 & 5 (which I'm not sure I have seen), then our ignorance is to blame if she is a Wizard. Inzil - It is really hard for me to think an innocent makes a self-vote in situation like this (meaning the numbers we have), but a Wizard might try a copy-cat thing after seeing Rikae got away with hers. Yet the idea bothers me - like the idea we 're going to have one more bandwagon where more or less everyone vote the same. He did give Pom the first vote on D1 (which actually led to her lynching) when two others (Nerwen and Copper) were leading the tally with two votes (and McCaber had one - and with a crosspost two as well). Okay. Needs to have a decision on this...
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
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#18 |
The Sweetest Spoiler
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
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Kath's over-defensiveness regarding her Wizard of Oz outburst early in the game struck me as an honestly frustrated and confused Kath.
Rikae spends a little too much time comparing this game to Dueling Wizards. She mentions it in her #11, then again in #30, and possibly again in another place (though I'm rushing now and may be misremembering). In one of those posts (#30), she says Pom, Dun, and Cab are trying to convince people that wizards are good. Why the fixation with that game? Well, if I'm right.... Rikae says in her #66 she wants to lynch Dun because "I always suspect him, simple as that." Dun nearly votes her in #71, but it's clearly a joke, and he adds "Not yet" to the end of his post. Then she's suddenly (well, not suddenly) at his throat toDay, and he goes along with it? I want to know how the rest of you are not suspicious of all of this. Moving on.... "I don't like the way Pom and Cab went for Cop at all," says Rikae in her #109. It could be actual concern, but it seems like an older wolf unhappy with her mates' clearly unwise behavior. Dun's "Yes indeed" in #160 to Cab's comment about more than one wizard going for Cop (the original comment was made by Pom) is almost certainly wolf sarcasm. Nerwen's analyses of Pom and Nog (#168 and #188 respectively) look like innocent Nerwen, and are reasonable. She makes some good points about Nog's vote for McCaber. It really was odd, and continues to bother me. In #221 Cop says she's not worried about Dun for once. This strikes me as odd. Rikae's #228: "Yes, I'm late, which proves I'm not a wizard." No. Just....no. Also, part of that post looks, again, like an alpha addressing her cubs. Rikae was also strangely pushy about me looking at Oz. Not pushy in a rude way, but it didn't seem like something an innocent Rikae would do. Of course the other options at the time were Volo and Morsul, and she'd have wanted both of those to die (going back to the possibility that the wolves thought Volo was the seer), so I don't really see the point to her pushing me toward it when it didn't benefit her (unless she thought Oz was another gifted, which is possible). In retrospect, Nog was in an excellent position on the Day Oz died, which could be why he asked for my opinion; it didn't matter to him who was lynched, as long as somebody was. And then in his #267 he says, "This turns out interesting indeed!!!" It could easily be a gloating wolf, um, gloating. Rikae's self-vote continues to be shifty. If she were the purseholder (as Nog proposed in a later post), I'd think she would have been clearer about it, or at least less reckless afterward. It doesn't ring true to me. She's done this enough times to know that it won't necessarily get you lynched, and she's smart enough to plan it out so she survived and is now trusted by most....holy crap, that's what is going on at the moment. Again, why is everyone else trusting her so? Dun defends Rikae in his #308, as does Cab in #365. Dun says he doesn't buy her confession. Of course now the opposite is happening, so that's....interesting. Cop (and others) cited Volo's suspicion of Rikae, which she still seems to be denying. Kath's talk of Volo in #383 looks wrong to me, though I'm honestly starting to skim at this point, so I'll have to think more on it toMorrow if I'm still alive. "Someone join me so this vote [for Gil] is not for nothing." Stay classy, Dun. ![]() Posting this and then voting. Dun is almost certainly evil, and Rikae really looks like his packmate. Gah. Time really whizzed by toDay. I'll bold this later. Sorry. No time. (ETA: Bolded now, yay!) x'd since my last
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"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.
Last edited by satansaloser2005; 02-02-2013 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Bolding at last. |
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#19 |
The Sweetest Spoiler
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
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++Dun
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"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.
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#20 |
The Sweetest Spoiler
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
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I'm sorry that post is so disjointed. I'd planned to actually go back and quote things and say more, but I suddenly got handed a bunch of work early in the afternoon and simply didn't have time. I'm sure there are parts of that post that don't make sense outside of my head, and I'll be happy to explain them toMorrow if I'm around, but I wanted to type up the scribbles I had, so....ugh. There'll be time toMorrow, I hope.
Quick list then, based on what I read just now. Suspicious: Dun Rikae Fence-sitting: Nog Cop Trusting for now: Nerwen Kath
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"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.
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#21 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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DEADLINE.
Zil is lynched, stop posting, narration's coming up.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#22 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Day 6 morning
We don't have to tell you how annoyed the trolls were after they had had their bellies empty for two days straight.
"I want to eat someone. Actually, I want to eat Lad," said Rick. "I have no doubt I would be delicious," said Lad darkly. "I think Sal would be juicier," Kat argued. "Lad doesn't seem to be objecting," Sal pointed out. "Yer right," said Nog, and grabbed Lad. "Don't yer push me, I can walk," Lad spat and walked out of the cave. The others followed quickly on his heels and they came to the place where the trolls had made their fire the previous night. "We 'ave still some wood left," Cop pointed out. "It should be enough if 'e's a wizzer." "Wizzers are small," Nerve confirmed. "But they are enough for a good supper." They found a big, heavy log, placed it upright and tied Lad to it. Rick piled the remaining firewood around him and Sal set it alight. "He ain't even strugglin'," Nog voiced the general concern. "Did we roast a troll again?" Kat asked. To everyone's surprise, Lad laughed coldly. Flames were beginning to lick his toes, but he did not seem to mind. "Your fire cannot kill me, you fools. I wield the flame of Anor!" "The fire can't hurt 'im, 'e says," Cop repeated what they all just heard. "Bring more wood!" "It ain't like he can escape, anyway," Sal noted. "If he won't burn, he'll choke from the smoke." "And then we eat him," Nerve added. "That won't help either. I've had enough of this! Your ropes cannot keep me here. I have many allies. I will fly, you fools!" "Can he fly?" Rick asked, puzzled. Lad did not reply, but instead he looked into the sky with an intensive look in his eyes. He was starting to change: he didn't really look very much like a troll anymore, he looked smaller, much more cunning and kind of bearded. "Where are you, my moth, when I need you?" he muttered under his breath, scanning the skies with his bright eyes. The flames rose higher, and Lad let out a long wail. "My moth has deserted me, and so have my eagles! I have no friends anymore! And that once they called me Inzilgast the Bird-tamer!" He wailed, and cried, but his tears were not enough to dose the fire. They watched him grill - quite nicely actually - but then, to their dismay (as much as trolls can be dismayed), his body seemed to shrink even more, and it seemed as the long years of death have finally revealed on it; and as they looked, it shrank and the shrivelled face became rags of burnt skin upon a charred skull. Then grey mist gathered about Lad's body, and rising slowly with the smoke, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed above the bonfire. For a moment it wavered, then came a wind from the east and with a sigh, it disappeared. The trolls were left without food again. ~*~ Dumb and Dead Thinlómien, "Lom", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1 Legate of Amon Lanc, "Leg", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1 Pomegranate, "Pom", a Wizard, boiled and eaten on Day 1 Ozban, "Oz", an Ordinary Troll, crushed to death by a troll pyramid on Day 2 Volo, "Vol", Traitor Troll, magically opened up like a door on Night 3 Bane Mantra, "Bane", an Ordinary Troll, turned into stone while hunting (modfired) on Day 3 Boromir88, "Bore", Ordinary Troll, forgotten outside the cave and turned into stone on Day 3 Brinniel, "Brin", the Clever Troll, strangled to death with the assistance of magical studs on Night4 Gil-Galad, "Gil", an Ordinary Troll, beaten to death by his fellows on Day 4 Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz", an Ordinary Troll, lost in search for Bane (modfired) on Day 4 A Little Green, "Green", an Ordinary Troll, blown up with fireworks on Night 5 Morsul the Dark, "Mors", an Ordinary Troll, roasted, but not eaten on Day 5 Loslote, "Lot", the Purse-holder Troll, lured into daylight on Night 6 McCaber, "Cab", a Wizard, identified by the troll-purse and suffocated to death on Night 6 Inziladun, "Lad", a Wizard, roasted but not rescued on Day 6 Dumb and Walking Coppermirror, "Cop" Kath, "Kat" Nerwen, "Nerve" Nogrod, "Nog" Rikae, "Rick" satansaloser2005, "Sal" ~*~ Night 7 has started. Wizzer, send your pick. Insomniac troll, send yours. Others sleep. |
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#23 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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Nightfall of Day 7
As dawn broke, the lonely wizard left the cave. He had no friends anymore, only enemies, but their numbers had fallen too. A great weariness came upon him, for he had seen and done much, and sorrow had lined his face and whitened his hair. If he ever returned and saw some of his friends again, they would tell him he looked older.
He sat alone on a rock, watching the sun, so brilliant on the sky. He remembered meeting her in the West many ages ago. He remembered her smile and it gave him hope: he wasn't and wouldn't ever be the lone agent of Light in this great evergoing battle. He gathered his robes and missed his hat fervently, then hurried of to slay a troll. In the troll-cave, meanwhile, Cop was dreaming of a meat pie. Her mum had been a great cook, and she had always cooked their food, experimenting with pies, soups and stews. Cop had eaten nothing as good as her cookings for years, and the thought of her mum's creations still made her cry sometimes. Lom and Leg and their bunch just couldn't do some things, and cooking was one of those. Cop rolled in her sleep. After Green's death she had taken her quilts and rags and her sleeping place too, or whatever remained of it after the ceiling had come down. The other trolls didn't want to sleep there, believing that corner of the cave to bring bad luck, so Cop cherished the feeling of having more space and being further away from the other smelly, snoring trolls who kicked each other in their sleep. Now Cop woke up, quite unpleasantly. It took her a while to figure out what had woken her: it was daylight. Dumbfounded, she stared at the ceiling. There was undoubtedly a small hole in it, just over her bed. She was certain it hadn't been there before, but now she finally understood why the others considered it an unlucky spot. Unfortunately, it was too late for her. She felt her skin stiffen, her insides go heavy. She was turning into stone. The last thing she saw was a slender figure in dark robes against the splendid sunlight. It laughed with such genuine mirth that Cop would have laughed too despite everything if she hadn't been half stone already. "Thank you, Arien," the laughing voice said, which made whatsoever no sense to Cop. She died before she could figure it out. When night fell, the remaining trolls woke up. They were quite upset to find Cop turned into stone inside the cave and figure out they would need to fix the ceiling before dawn, as well as find food and kill a wizard. ~*~ Dumb and Dead Thinlómien, "Lom", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1 Legate of Amon Lanc, "Leg", dispatched by the Wizards as a threat on Night 1 Pomegranate, "Pom", a Wizard, boiled and eaten on Day 1 Ozban, "Oz", an Ordinary Troll, crushed to death by a troll pyramid on Day 2 Volo, "Vol", Traitor Troll, magically opened up like a door on Night 3 Bane Mantra, "Bane", an Ordinary Troll, turned into stone while hunting (modfired) on Day 3 Boromir88, "Bore", Ordinary Troll, forgotten outside the cave and turned into stone on Day 3 Brinniel, "Brin", the Clever Troll, strangled to death with the assistance of magical studs on Night4 Gil-Galad, "Gil", an Ordinary Troll, beaten to death by his fellows on Day 4 Shastanis Althreduin, "Shaz", an Ordinary Troll, lost in search for Bane (modfired) on Day 4 A Little Green, "Green", an Ordinary Troll, blown up with fireworks on Night 5 Morsul the Dark, "Mors", an Ordinary Troll, roasted, but not eaten on Day 5 Loslote, "Lot", the Purse-holder Troll, lured into daylight on Night 6 McCaber, "Cab", a Wizard, identified by the troll-purse and suffocated to death on Night 6 Inziladun, "Lad", a Wizard, roasted but not rescued on Day 6 Coppermirror, "Cop", an Ordinary Troll, spotlighted on Night 7 Dumb and Walking Kath, "Kat" Nerwen, "Nerve" Nogrod, "Nog" Rikae, "Rick" satansaloser2005, "Sal" ~*~ As you all know, Day 7 is going on. My invitation for the live people to talk is naturally still valid. Last edited by Thinlómien; 02-03-2013 at 03:35 PM. |
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#24 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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Isn't that a bit overdoing our predicament?
It's 5:2, right? If we lynch an innocent it will be 4:2 come the Night. If the ranger doesn't make another save, it will be 3:2, and there will be a toMorrow. Now that would be a tough ordeal, but not a lost game. Especially if we had good reasons to stand up together toMorrow. And let's not forget the possibility the ranger really gives us a gift. The numbers come down and the chances that the ranger gets it right increase all the time. So let's cheer up and be positive - and do some Wizard-hunting toDay! EDIT: X'd with Sally X2
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