WW LXXXIX: The Terror of Tol Fuin

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I have to be done with this game by, if not before, July 6. If we're not done by then, I'll have to withdraw.

So we know for sure if we're still a struggling village looking to kill some wolves by the 6th Sally is out. Why bother telling us this? If she's an ordo she can't protect, dream of, or kill anyone. She can only vote. Of course we're out one vote which isn't good, but at this point in the game why bother saying anything?
1) She's a gifted and she wants to ensure her survival so we can get as much use out of her as possible before her inevitable death.
2) She's a wolf and she wants to ensure survival under the guise of innocence by her self-possessed "this village can't win with a dead ordo Sally"
3) She's a foolish villager who has now left herself open for attacks at night.

Sally pretty much signed her own death warrant with that post anyway you look at it, but she wants us all believe we can't win the game as a village without her.

Statistically, if I'm killed as an ordo, the village cannot win. (The only exception to this is a tie.)

And so I declared shenanigans on this idea earlier. If Sally really is innocent, gifted or ordo, there's a good chance the wolves will take advantage and get her in the Night. I doubt she'd be foolish enough to say anything if she was a gifted. I might think the same thing of her being a wolf if she had stopped after saying she had to withdraw on the 6th. The second half of her post looks awfully suspicious to me. Still, there's doubt, it's a bold move to make, especially so early on Day 1 and in such a small game.

Moving on...

If they are, then I'll be voting for DeathWish!Sally until such time as further evidence is presented.

What? Who does that? Mith and Nerwen both commented on this. And I'm inclined to agree this is pretty shifty work. If you're unsure of Sally and are only doing it as a mercy-killing why not wait until Day progresses? Very little had actually been said yet and he's already heading down this road. And more alarming he is only using her to hold a vote until he digs up someone else to vote for.

I can understand suspicions of Sally, but simply killing her because she's going to die seems pretty wolfish. It's almost like "she's admitted she's an ordo, best to get one villager out of the way by Day and another by Night."

So my suspicions lie with Sally and Bom.
If Sally is a wolf she's making a daring move early on. If she's innocent she will probably become a midnight snack. She doesn't want to withdraw and that's understandable. The game has just begun though, perhaps her plea of innocence was premature seeing as at this point it's anyone's game. She has painted a target on herself whether innocent or guilty.

If Bom is guilty he's trying to steer votes to Sally under the guise of a mercy kill to keep conversation of away from him and his cohorts. He's hardly started a bandwagon or anything, but a wolf could keep all eyes on Sally today so the real threat is forgotten. Notice he doesn't say he thinks she's a wolf or an innocent. If he's innocent he was very bold and foolish to suggest voting for Sally just because she had to be gone by the 6th.

[satansaloser2005]

Ah, but you see, dear Kit, if the wolves try to kill me in the Night, they won't be targeting one of the gifteds. So not only have I now made the announcement of when we'll need to win the game by very clear, I've created possible confusion among the wolf pack.

A wolf pack which I now believe you might be a part of, precious.


Ain't life grand?



And now, a list!

Possibly evil (by basis of reacting suspiciously to my post):
Kit
Bom (depending on whether or not he was entirely joking, and even then)
Nerwen (for defending-ish me far too quickly for Nerwen)

Possibly evil (by basis of record):
Nilp
Mith
Nerwen
Kit
Lottie

Possibly evil (by basis of being insane):
Everyone

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

So we know for sure if we're still a struggling village looking to kill some wolves by the 6th Sally is out. Why bother telling us this? If she's an ordo she can't protect, dream of, or kill anyone. She can only vote. Of course we're out one vote which isn't good, but at this point in the game why bother saying anything?
1) She's a gifted and she wants to ensure her survival so we can get as much use out of her as possible before her inevitable death.
2) She's a wolf and she wants to ensure survival under the guise of innocence by her self-possessed "this village can't win with a dead ordo Sally"
3) She's a foolish villager who has now left herself open for attacks at night.

You failed to notice (or purposely ignored) the fact that one ordo can make a difference in the outcome simply by being alive.

I don't think that Sally would have endangered herself that much in her first post if she has a special role. However, I see what you mean about Bom. He's really pushing a sallywagon, or trying to.

Kit is #2 on my suspision list, for saying that Bom is pushing a sallywagon and pushing it herself yet further.

Originally Posted by Kit

Sally pretty much signed her own death warrant with that post anyway you look at it, but she wants us all believe we can't win the game as a village without her.

But no wolf will kill her after your post! That would be so obvious! The only explanation I could come up with is that you are a wolf who speaks while plotting who will be the first victim. And you're debating about Bom to make yourself look unconnected to him.

Very likely of being baddies:
-Bom
-Kit

Edit: xed with Sally

[satansaloser2005]

There are only eight hours left in the Day, people! Let's get cracking!

[Galadriel55]

I'm so confused with the time zones. I'm supposed to be in -5 but with all the daylight savings and whatever it's -4... BD should have a clock independant of all the time differences!

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

There are only eight hours left in the Day, people! Let's get cracking!

Don't put off posting until the last hour!

Sheesh, I thought this thread will be more active...

[satansaloser2005]

DL is in about seven hours, my good lad....y.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

DL is in about seven hours, my good lad....y.

I figured out when it is my time, but it's beyond me to convert it to other people's time.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I figured out when it is my time, but it's beyond me to convert it to other people's time.

Ah, gotcha. I'm a lot the same way. I set a secondary clock on my laptop to the Downs time so it's easier to convert it, if that helps. *shrugs* Time zones are silly.

[Mithalwen]

Galadriel, you might want to change your time zone for the downs then via options on the control panel - if you scroll down from the invisible option there is a box ot choose time zones. Either pick GMT and set the DST (daylight saving time) option to off. THen the posts on the Downs will show WW time (and your computer clock will keep you straight for your actual time). The only way I coped with Time zone changes in the States was to have a dual time watch with one set to UK time to keep something constant.

Could it be that all of extended Clan Nogrod have mixed up the midnights? I don't use 24hr clock much so I had to check myself ..... A lot can happen quicky though...they will probably all rush on at once and I'll go to make a cup of tea and find 5 pages to read on my return. So good weekend everyone?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

You failed to notice (or purposely ignored) the fact that one ordo can make a difference in the outcome simply by being alive.

I don't think that Sally would have endangered herself that much in her first post if she has a special role. However, I see what you mean about Bom. He's really pushing a sallywagon, or trying to.

Kit is #2 on my suspision list, for saying that Bom is pushing a sallywagon and pushing it herself yet further.



But no wolf will kill her after your post! That would be so obvious! The only explanation I could come up with is that you are a wolf who speaks while plotting who will be the first victim. And you're debating about Bom to make yourself look unconnected to him.

Very likely of being baddies:
-Bom
-Kit

Edit: xed with Sally

G55, this is the most suspicious thing yet posted. (Welcome to WW, by the way )

Defending Sally, exaggerating Bom's words, and painting Kitanna as hypocritical (which was not my interpretation of Kit's post). I don't quite see why you did all three of these things.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Defending Sally, exaggerating Bom's words, and painting Kitanna as hypocritical (which was not my interpretation of Kit's post). I don't quite see why you did all three of these things.

I'm hoping she's just being a newbie and has picked me to latch onto for the game. I know I'll have to keep an extra close eye on her, as I tend to forget about people who seem to agree with me, and that can be quite the fatal mistake.

[satansaloser2005]

Also, I see where Mith's coming from when she says that asking about the rules can be an attempt to look naive and innocent. I'm not saying that's what's been done here, but I do understand her point (as well as the counterpoint that people with roles must understand the rules to perform well).

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod goes up for thinking more or less exactly the same as me.

Lottie goes down for being so squishy. She seems to have very little to say (well I know this might sound hypocritical but she's been involved for much longer toDay than me!)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I'm here! And I have First Impressions.

Sally is probably my dear sweet cupcake, and I would not like to lynch her toDay at all.

Bom is a dear sweet newish player who, from what little he's posted, sounds like last game when he was innocent. I'd like to leave him be, too.

Galadriel's posts hit me over the head a little like a baby fish, but it's her first game ever, so she gets a newbie pass out of the category of "say what now".

Kit's post I saw and instantly "whaaaaaaat"ed because I forgot she was playing in this game. But I don't know how to read her yet, I just wanted to mention that.

The rest of you I've got no real impressions on yet. More noise-making, please!

Edit: Xed with two Sallys

I would second what Lommy said: What kind of impressions is that? Noting one person who was discussed this far the most (also with very thoughtful words; thanks, if you keep using such a deep and thoughtful reasoning, I might soon get lost in all the complicated definitions you make), two newbies to say that they are newbies, and one person who had been the "voice of suspicion" a bit on this thread, while concluding that there isn't much to say in the end.

Lottie might be just as well my first possibility for a vote - I mean, really, this is coming and saying nothing. More commitment would be nice in any case, anyway.

Lommy seems like nothing wrong this far, maybe except for these two:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Kitanna - for once, I don't quite get where all the Kitanna-suspicion is coming from. I don't necessarily agree with everything she says, but she seems sensible enough. I wouldn't like to lynch her toDay - it would be a poor thanks for beasically keep the discussion going on toDay.

(...)

Sally - well, I can't see why she has been made such a fuss of toDay. I'm more inclined to think she's innocent than not (I seem to recall she only makes such a show of her innocence when she's innocent) but of course this is not foolproof reasoning.

Just so that the first one sounds a bit like bloodthirsty "let's keep her around, she will continue making a fuss and people will be getting lynched" and the second could also be a "I don't suspect her... but if you lynch her, I don't mind" - however that's the worst possible interpretation, and in general I don't think she sounds like having evil intentions in truth.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Also, I see where Mith's coming from when she says that asking about the rules can be an attempt to look naive and innocent. I'm not saying that's what's been done here, but I do understand her point (as well as the counterpoint that people with roles must understand the rules to perform well).

Is that a postscriptum of something you didn't manage to write in your previous post and remembered later that you should say it, or what is the reason of you posting this? (Separately?) Just askin'.

EDIT: x-ed after Kit's vote.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Compassion gets you nowhere in Werewolf.

And I have nothing better to go on, even after another read-through...yeah, yeah, but I'll still feel sorry for her if she's lynched her first Day ever.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

You failed to notice (or purposely ignored) the fact that one ordo can make a difference in the outcome simply by being alive.

I rather don't like how she tries to make a simple omission look evil, and with an argumentative tone...it's not like she's wolf-hunting, more like wolf-inventing.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Well, maybe I misinterpreted Bom's post, but he seemed to give the message "let's vote for Sally unless there's an obvious wolf, because she might drop out". Doesn't it sound more fishy when put that way?

And here she seems to be trying to on one hand convince us that her earlier posts were reasonable, and on the other continue to further the point she'd made in it. I don't know, I might be wrong on this one, but that's what it looks like to me.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Kit, I see what you mean about Sally being cobblerish - the "center of attention". But she does not sound like a wolf.

This isn't so much a point against her as a question - I thought we didn't have a cobbler. Did I miss something? I could well have - I totally forgot Kit was playing at all, I might have forgotten there was a cobbler, too...

Edit: Xed with Mith

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Is that a postscriptum of something you didn't manage to write in your previous post and remembered later that you should say it, or what is the reason of you posting this? (Separately?) Just askin'.

I remembered that I'd meant to say it before, and had spaced it off. That's all.




Galadriel is actually scarily supportive of me. No, I don't think I'll be voting her toDay, as I still suspect Kit, but it's a bit....no, a lot....suspicious that Galadriel is backing me so strongly. Obviously we're not packmates, but if she's a wolf, it would a good (?) idea for her to try to establish a connection with me. I don't know. I appreciate it, but I'm also wary of her buddying up to me so quickly.


I also wish Bom would come back. I want to know his take on this a bit more before I decide (although as I've said he's certainly not my top pick right now).


EDIT: x'd with Lottie. And no, there's no cobbler, sweetie.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

G55 has defended Sally about three times!

I believe that was only one time, the other two just explaining my reason for it farther...

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

G55 - wouldn't believe it's her first game, she's so sharp.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

G55, this is the most suspicious thing yet posted. (Welcome to WW, by the way)

Defending Sally, exaggerating Bom's words, and painting Kitanna as hypocritical (which was not my interpretation of Kit's post). I don't quite see why you did all three of these things.

Answered Greenie's similar question bout it in #57.

Originally Posted by Loslote

The only hunch I've got so far is an ickle little one about Galadriel

And which one would that be? That I am suspecting Kit, Bom, or that I think that Sally is an innocent?

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

++Galadriel55

So you'll remember me forever as the first person ever to vote for you in Werewolf. Har!

I won't forget about it next game.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Seriously: too much defending of Sally, too much attacking Bom and a weird interpretation of Kitanna.

So one defense is too much? And I'm not the only person to suspect Bom. Kit makes more sense to me now - after a couple more posts - but at that time she didn't.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I rather don't like how she tries to make a simple omission look evil, and with an argumentative tone...it's not like she's wolf-hunting, more like wolf-inventing.

Paranoia? Point taken.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Galadriel is actually scarily supportive of me.

Yes, seeing as I don't want you - an innocent in my books so far - be lynched. I don't know if I've been that "scarily supportive". I think I've only made one point that you don't look like a wolf, and everyone jumped on it, making me repeat it.

Edit: xed with a host...

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I believe that was only one time, the other two just explaining my reason for it farther...

I believe he counted it as three times that you defended Sally. Three seperate posts and all that. And it isn't just the defending, it's the way that you had been so convinced of her innocence. The only way you could have known that would be if you knew she wasn't a packmate of yours - the other way you could have known that, it'd have been too dangerous to flaunt your certainty quite so loudly. You've backed off now some -

an innocent in my books so far

- but still.

And which one would that be? That I am suspecting Kit, Bom, or that I think that Sally is an innocent?

Not quite - the hunch that you've grown fur where you oughtn't have.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

>.<
Loslote
Galadriel55
Lommy
Kitanna
Bom

<3
Mith
Greenie
Eomer
Legate

???
Everyone else

Oh, dear, no time.

++Nilpaurion Felagund

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

++Nilpaurion Felagund

Highlights, sir!

EDIT- Never mind. Atta boy!

[Thinlómien]

Mith - I xed.
Legate - I was wondering how it will make the outcome of the day.

[Inziladun]

DL. Silence.

[satansaloser2005]

++Galadriel

[satansaloser2005]

Oh flipping come on. It took over a minute to post that?! >.<



Edit: x'd, sorry

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Oh flipping come on. It took over a minute to post that?! >.<



Edit: x'd, sorry

You're excused, I suppose.

Stand by for swift results.

And 4000 posts! *pats self on back*

[Inziladun]

Although the unlucky Venturers did not know exactly what had befallen, the meaning of Inziladun's scrawled final words seemed clear enough: some of their number had turned, or had been turned somehow to evil and murder. Long they debated about what their next course of action should be. They knew that they could count on no help from any quarter. The nearest friends of the Edain were the Elves of Lindon, but they did not know of the plight of the Númenóreans, and there was no means of communicating with them, even if the mariners had known exactly where they themselves were in relation to the coasts of Middle-earth. There was only one thing to do: the identities of the killers among them must be discovered, and the threat removed from the rest by killing them in turn. Then the arguments turned toward who among them was acting the most suspicious, or out of character. At the end of the day, it was decided that Loslote was the most likely to be evil. They determined to kill her by hanging, since trees were certainly in abundance, and rope from the wreck of the ship had washed ashore.
The preparations were made swiftly. The noose was placed around Loslote's neck, and she was made to stand upon some piled rocks. They were kicked out from under her, and the crowding sailors watched to see if some change would come upon the one they'd chosen.
As the body grew still, they were shocked to see a grey, misty figure emerge from it and float into the air. It seemed to point at them all, marking them with helpless malice. Then it seemed to simply melt away before their eyes in the light of the setting Sun, and the air was clean again.
Darkness covered the island once again.

The Living:

Bom Tombadillo
Nogrod
Shasta
Kitanna
G55
Sally
Eomer
Nerwen
Greenie
Lommy
Nilp
Mithalwen
Legate


The Dead:

Inziladun: (Mod)
Loslote: Evil Spirit

IT IS NOW NIGHT 2

Evildoers may PM. Those with picks send them in.

[Inziladun]

Shasta awoke in the night with a feeling of uneasiness.
His bedding place was atop a cliff out of sight of the Sea, though he could still hear it. Woods stood nearby, with ancient pine and fir trees. He looked around, and at first saw nothing. Then, as his eyes grew more accustomed to the dark, he thought he spied a figure standing about 20 yards away. When his gaze alighted on it, it rushed toward him, holding a massive rock over its head to cast down. Shasta had no weapons, but knew the would-be killer could not keep up with him, burdened as it was. He sprang to his feet, racing for the cover of the wood. There he might find a weapon of his own, as well as gain some cover. At the moment he entered, a second shape, having hidden silently as its mate ran the quarry its way, stabbed swiftly with its dagger. As Shasta fell to the ground, he heard its hissing laughter.


The Living:

Bom Tombadillo
Nogrod
Kitanna
G55
Sally
Eomer
Nerwen
Greenie
Lommy
Nilp
Mithalwen
Legate


The Dead:

Inziladun: (Mod) (killed by the baddies Night 1)
Loslote: Evil Spirit (lynched Day 1)
Shasta: Ordo (murdered by the evil ones Night 2)

IT IS DAY 2. You know what to do.

As a reminder, Nerwen and Bom make sure to vote toDay, or the consequences could be dire.

[satansaloser2005]

No time to say much about yesterDay or last Night, but I wanted to post what I was meant to post when I voted (well, more or less). I'm sorry about the lateness of my vote yesterday. My phone decided to spazz out on me (the weather didn't help) and by the time I could get back to the Downs I only had time to vote, not explain. Grumble, grumble.


Anyway, Galadriel's clinging onto me makes me a bit suspicious of her, as I've previously stated, and then her vote for Lommie....what? It strikes me as quite a random and possibly evil thing to do, especially since it was a throwaway vote for someone who had barely been around (though I'll have to take a closer look before I make any more specific statements about it). I hadn't taken a good enough look at most other candidates, especially the sudden (but delightful, in retrospect!) Lottiewagon, so I just went with my gut. (Also, voting for Kit, while also going with my gut, would have been a throwaway, and thus useless.)


There we go. I made with the splainy. I feel all shiny now.

I'll post more later, but I have a pretty redheaded girl* coming for dinner.


*My cousin, numpkins.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by G55 about me

´An hour before DL she still didn't have any solid opinions on anyone, which is quite strange, because there has been enough going on yesterDay. She said that "none of the arguments really convince" her in #128. She was very quick to jump on Shasta's reasoning - right he was to suspect Lottie as we know toDay, but how would I have known yesterDay? - in #140. Moreover, she was around for some time - less than I have, but still - and didn't post anything except for some shaky impressions. Unnaturally quiet as well, considering the heaps of information.

To tell you the truth, I came around way too late yesterDay, my brain was totally not on ww mode (I last played in January or February?) and I was distracting myself with other stuff and failing to concentrate on the game as much as it would have deserved. This all explains my (admittedly) poor performance yesterDay, but like I've said, it will be improved toDay. I was somewhat suspicious of Lottie (if I recall correctly I was suspecting her and Eomer the most) but had no real proof for it so I was really happy to jump on Shasta's reasonable-seeming case of her - I desperately needed to suspect someone a bit more seriously with the deadline and the necessity to vote looming rather close. It was not very "professional" but it's the truth about what happened.

Originally Posted by G55

I'm still thinking about this. She voted for Lottie (who we now know is a wolf), but apologises for it. Of course, that could be an innocent thinking she's going on a Lottiewagon, but it could be something much more sinister. I'm more inclined towards the former, but you never know!

I felt like apologising a little because I considered my own reasoning shoddy (based on a not-so-strong gut-feeling and someone else's arguments) as well as that I was lacking the conviction to really want anybody dead at that point and especially because Lottie with her controversial manner is so often the obvious choice for lazy thinkers on Day1.

Kit - I don't understand how you can read my posts and reach the conclusion that I thought Lottie was innocent at any point. I had to check as it perplexed me that you said that: I most definitely first said I'm unsure, then thought she looks worse for being squishy, then named her and Eomer my feeble top suspects and after Shasta made his case kind of seriously started to suspect her. (And yes, I had a moment of doubt when she posted a reaction that seemed innocent to me but then I decided she was still my best bet and voted her.)

Originally Posted by Nilp

Has never 'seen Lommy so decisive! Especially on Day 1! Something to consider...' (He referred to a post 79 of hers, which actually was Kit's )

I believe he referred to my rather waffly post a few post before Kit's and was being sarcastic.

Originally Posted by Nog

It is interesting that Kit decided to concentrate her effort toDay (well, thus far) into close-reading those who got LottieWolf lynched. Now wolf-on-wolf votes do happen every now and then and I'm not suggesting some people should be made immune or putting them beyond suspicion just because they voted / lynched a wolf. But Kit's priorities look interesting: like she wishes to turn the discussion away form somewhere else?

Interesting observation, but I cannot fathom what she'd be so desperate to steer the discussion away from, unless she and G55 or Sally are the remaining wolves (then she definitely would like to present new targets, but if I recall correctly, her interactions with the two don't really look like that). I have to agree though that when a wolf was lynched, it is rather funny to start eyeing those who lynched her suspiciously - it doesn't seem very much like innocent logic. I mean, an innocent would want to pose the question "did anybody try to defend/save Lottie?" first (I imagine), while a wolf is more likely to go down the "let's analyse the bandwagon" path because she doesn't have to figure out who's evil and who's not.

Originally Posted by Nerwen to Nog

Are you talking about Lottie's claim that she "didn't know Kit was playing"? I don't know– it was, of course, suspicious, with hindsight– but it might have been meant as a more general "look at me, I'm a clueless innocent" ploy, rather than having anything to do with Kit herself. On the other hand (or paw) Lottie did make quite a point of it: at #106 she says, Did I miss something? I could well have - I totally forgot Kit was playing at all, I might have forgotten there was a cobbler, too...

I have to say that as a wolf I have a few times been tempted to make a list and intentionally omit a fellow from there and claim it was an accident (as I accidentally omit people every now and then) to seem less like fellows, but I always decided not to do it because it felt dishonest. So Lottie's Kitanna comment seems interesting to me, because I know from personal experience it's something that could occur to a wolf but on the other hand I'm not sure if Lottiewolf would like to lie intentionally any more than mewolf...

Originally Posted by Mith

I would point out that this fascinating little Ranger twist (dont' remember anything quite like it in games I have played),means that while in ranger games the wolves will always have weigh the risk of not getting a kill against trying to get the players most dangerous to them out of the way - and if there are readable seer hints it will alert both Ranger and wolves potentially. This game there is the risk that one of them will die as well as not getting the desired kill. Dependent on how likely the surviving wolves feel any potential Seer is to have dreamt of them early they may think that risking another dream and getting a more certain kill is a better path than going for the most obvious first and possibly starting day 2 down to a lone wolf (even with seer/ranger out of the way). OK that was a verbose way of saying that the choice of Shasta may not be of major significance.

Now this passage seemed rather fishy to me. Don't get me wrong, it's good to try to get into the wolves' heads and try to reconstruct their thinking and she's making sense, but this is rather complicated especially as Mith implied she's not at the height of her brainpower at the moment. Ok, even if we allow that even a Mith with not the best of her brainpower can come up with advanced wolf thinking theories there's still the most eyebrow-raising part: the last sentence. It really looks like Wolf Mith wrote her genuine thoughts there and then to downplay her complicated thinking by saying it was just a verbiose way of saying that the choice of Shasta might not be so significant.

[Mithalwen]

No it was just the coffee was kicking in and having read through to make sure it made some kind of sense I realised that is what it boiled down to.I was trying ot make it clear having been queried on my mention that it is suspicious not to know the rules theory which seemed quite obvious to me.

I was thinking about the significance of the Ranger issue yesterday as I mentioned in one of the posts. I was up to the rather simple task of relating actual events to previously considered hypostheses on the game structure in my fragile state. What I wasn't up to but am going to try is to try and sort out the far more complex webs of interactions and analyses thereof .

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Interesting observation, but I cannot fathom what she'd be so desperate to steer the discussion away from, unless she and G55 or Sally are the remaining wolves (then she definitely would like to present new targets, but if I recall correctly, her interactions with the two don't really look like that). I have to agree though that when a wolf was lynched, it is rather funny to start eyeing those who lynched her suspiciously - it doesn't seem very much like innocent logic. I mean, an innocent would want to pose the question "did anybody try to defend/save Lottie?" first (I imagine), while a wolf is more likely to go down the "let's analyse the bandwagon" path because she doesn't have to figure out who's evil and who's not.

I'm never terribly fond of the "good-votes-are-really-bad-votes" meme myself. I seem to recall times it's got so out of hand that the baddies could quite openly go after the very people who'd helped take one of them down.

Still, you must admit it has often been the case that a wolf jumps on the bandwaggon. With last Night's, I suppose it would most likely be you (thought Seer-Shasta had dreamed Lottie) or Nog (just throwing his hands up). That said, the dynamics of yesterDay aren't the kind where you can say there definitely had to be wolf-on-wolf voting... so it's a bit of a dead end at the moment.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

again today, pretty much soon as Inzil opens the new day, both of them are posting and defending their votes.

Because neither of us did it properly yesterDay. If all the Lottie-lynchers could just say "what Shasta said" and vote, my vote had to be explained, especially because I didn't comment too much on Lommy before.

Here we have Loslote defending both of them yesterday.

Lottie defended me? She didn't vote me (for whatever reason. I mean, Eomer did, and later Sally), but she seemed to suspect me quite strongly! I was the only person she had anything to say about.

I promise not to just pick on you two but you both worry me quite a bit!

I seem to worry everyone qite a bit... :P and so does Sally...

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I have grown a bit unsure about Galadriel toDay, because of her rather strongly defensive posting. I mean, it is mostly just defense. Sure, there are some accusations or suspicions from Kitanna and such, but her first post toDay starts with defense of her actions yesterDay - was it necessary? Or does she just feel over-threatened?

Yesterday in RL I was so tired I could barely finish that reply to Kit, and I said that all of my own thoughts and notes will wait till today.

I'm doing it again, aren't I?



OK, so something of content. Finally.

Suspicions of Kit go up. She suspected quite a few of my posts in her ananysis basically repeating the general attitude only after everybody else said pretty much the same thing. Before (when she debated Sally and Bom further) there wasn't anything fishy enough about them. Not enough to comment, at any rate.

An approximate timeline (only the relevant posts)

Kit makes the posts suspecting both Bom and Sally, but more the former.
I comment.
Greenie analyses my post.
I reply to Greenie.
Kit makes a note about Greenie's post, says Bom stil looks worse than Sally.
Greenie replies to my reply to her.
Eomer: "G55 has defended Sally about three times!"
Eomer: "The jump on Bom is bewildering."
Kit flipflops on Sally and says that she is not more suspicious than Bom.
Eomer calls my original comments to Kit "the most suspicious thing yet posted"
Kit votes Sally.


Now if my posts were so suspicious, why didn't Kit ever make a note of them before? Plus, Greenie&Eomer both questioned them. However, now that Pretty-much-Everybody decided that I'm fishy, she suddenly finds them odd.


Suspicions of Lommy floating midway (explained in previous posts).


Legate still sounds good, even though I've gone from "quite reasonable" to "somewhat suspicious" in his books.


Eomer is still a mystery.


Mith I don't quite get toDay. Her post in #205 confuses me. What's weird is that she posted a lot, but she never got in the thick of the arguments. Maybe not evil, but weird.


Nerwen's arguments look innocent enough, although she continues to be aloof. I don't detect traces of fur on her, but she's so far away there that it's hard to see. :P


Nilp didn't post anything of content.


More to come a bit later.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Nilp didn't post anything of content.

I see that we shall be getting along grandly.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

You ought to know by now, Legate, that no-one can ever get a clear picture of me!

Too true, since you're jumping around so much.

I don't know what to think of you either (of course I'm tempted to say you're evil, since you voted me twice already, and that's an evil thing to do! ).



#67 - nothing much. Introduction. Says we have a "careful village"

#69 - voices his suspicion/disagreement (?) on me and Sally

#70 - nothing of importance

#73 - "The jump on Bom is bewildering."

#84 - thinks Bom's post is funny

#89 - calls my post "the most suspicious thing yet posted"

#97 - makes sure he can highlight

#100 - votes me

DAY2

#199 - questions Nip and Lottie's "conversation"

#200 - "Sally and G55 seem completely intent on making people suspicious of them": we defended our votes

#202 - examines Lotties possible connection with me.

#203 - Says that Lommy's case is interesting. Wants to examine it.

#214 - thinks that Kit is NOT hypocritical

#216 -
[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

That's an entirely different kettle of fish, dear Nilpaurion, and one which I shall investigate posthaste!

#218 - corrects Kit about Lommy

#219 - votes for me again.


How can one possibly get a clear picture of him when he jumps around so much?

Edit: xed with Lommy

[Kitanna]

Has anyone seen Bom? I found him worth a second look and now he's disappeared completely.

Suspicions of Kit go up. She suspected quite a few of my posts in her ananysis basically repeating the general attitude only after everybody else said pretty much the same thing.

My first post of today said I'd be looking at you for just that reason. I wanted to know why people found you so suspicious. Seeing as you got two votes yesterday it seemed fairly reasonable to me I should see why.

It is interesting that Kit decided to concentrate her effort toDay (well, thus far) into close-reading those who got LottieWolf lynched.

I missed a lot after my vote post. The biggest thing that happened was the death of known baddie, Lottie. So, I proped deeper. And this is not where I'm solely concentrating effort, it's where I started.

Like I said in my last post I wanted to take a look at Mith. I'm not sure what to think of her. And that feeling goes for a lot of others.

Mith:
1) Nothing much, some banter for Nilp
2) Asks why Shasta doesn't want to post (he had stated he was thinking of waiting until jokes ended and serious playing began)
3) Nothing useful
4) Here she says she finds it suspicious to not know the rules. She stated later this is a way to give the impression of a confused innocent.
5) Nothing useful
6) Not much
7) Nothing useful
8)

I don't know what Sally is playing at though. It is ten days til she says she has to go and in a game this size it is unlikely to be an issue. And apart from the ethics of participating in a game knowing you may not be able to see it through, I can't see any benefit of drawing attention to it so far in advance. I may be being thick but I can't see it being a helpful tactic for any role we have in the game. A hunter needs to get themselves killed to fulfil their purpose but we don't have one and it would be impossible for a Hunter to be in a position to make a good call that early in the game.

This is what she had to say on Sally.
9) Nothing useful
10) Nothing useful
11) Clarifies to Legate what she meant about not knowing the rules and wolfishness
12) Further clarification
13) Nothing useful
14) I think she's talking to Sally here about voting last minute. Not much else of note
15) Responds to Sally, saying I have clearly had an effect on her
16) Says Sally seemed the most suspicious so far and added a vote count. Also will look at Lottie
17) Says she's going with her strongest pick which happens to be Sally
18) More of the "not knowing the rules can be evil" debate
19) Douglas Adams
20) Asks Lommy if this be a bandwagon for Lottie
Day 2:
21) Makes a note of the ranger role and the twist it has added. (if you don't know what I mean check out the admin thread for clarification)
22) Continued rules jargon
So what to think about Mith. I stated before there was something about her posts I found strange, but not necessarily fiendish. I'm still of this mind, which might be what she's going for. She seems utterly fixated on the rules and those who "make a show" of not knowing them. Returning to this topic once or twice doesn't worry me, but she kept going back, even into today. She really only mentioned Sally and Lottie as possible choices in two posts. For Sally the only reason I could see was for her vote was based on Sally's ordo reveal in her second post. But even then she didn't seem to voice strong convictions about it. And she just says she wants to look harder at Lottie, but doesn't say anything about what she learned or if she did. Mith has been fairly vocal, but hasn't said much of interest. It's hard to pin her down, which is unsettling. I have no idea what to think of Mith even now. She's worrying, but it's hard to get any theories to stick to her. Oh Mith, you hurt my brain.

I feel one wolf may be a submarine at this point. Someone no one has really looked at or who hasn't gotten any suspicions thrown at them. There are four I can think of off the bat (Nerwen, Greenie, Eomer, and Nilp), but if I had to time to scrutinize everyone's posts from yesterday I'm sure I could find more.

Unfortunately due to errands and RL duties I can't keep doing that. I had more I wanted to look at (Lottie and Nog and the submarines) but I simply can't. For now I'll have to content myself with the here and now. I'll be back in a few hours.

[Galadriel55]

#51 - comments on the "Sally-Bom business". bis more innocent than not. Thinks Bom's post is fishier than Sally's ordo reveal, but doubts his guilt because so many people suspect him. Calls Nerwen careful and neutral. Questions some parts of Kit's post about her suspicions for Bom and Sally, but agrees with others. Argues with some of my statements about the matter.

#54 - nothing useful

#62 - replies to my reply to her first post.

#65 - votes Bom because he intended to vote Sally for her "DeathWish".

D2

#227 - comments on different posts

#228 - list. Nerwen, Mith, and Nilp are unknown. The others are either "leaning innocent" or she's "confused about" them.

#229 - nothing useful

#235 - Nerwenalysis. No definite conclusion: could go either way.

#236 - again nothing useful

#238 - votes Eomer. She called him "crafty" in her list and said that he confuses her.

D3

#345 - explains her Eomer vote and makes some very keen points.

#374 - another list. What differs from the previous list:

-Questions Legate about his reasoning yesterDay, doesn't want to form an opinion before he explains (on the previous list Legate was his "wishy-washy self" and there was no certain opinion.)

-Thinks me more innocent that not (whereas before she was torn about me.)

-Alarmed about Nog's role in the Kitwagon (otherwise the same as in the last list)

The opinion about other people didn't change much.

#348 - nothing much

#349 - Kitwagon summary.


Conclusion: I have very little to say about Greenie except that she made some good points. Both of her votes were sort of random, but she explained them, and I'll leave it at that for now. So far she sounds innocentish, but her votes still bug me a little. So she safely stays in my "yellow" category.

Edit: xed with Sally

[A Little Green]

Just my luck. I'm the only one here for over an hour, then people appear just as I'm going to bed. Anyway, I'm not at all sure about this, but since I want to base my vote on an actual logical reason instead of a vague fishy feeling I haven't havd the time to check properly, my vote will go to

++ Nogrod

[A Little Green]

I'm going now, but fully expect to be more around toMorrow if I'm still alive. Good night sweethearts.