Saruman's death

[Azrakhor Akallabeth]

As for falling under the power of the One, I differ in opinion on the issue because it says in the books that the Elf Lords perceived the mind of Sauron when he donned the One RIng and hastily removed their own. Yet, after the fall of Sauron by the hand of Isildur, they began wearing them again.

I can't recall if it states flatly that they removed their Elven rings for fear of falling under the dominion of the One or not, but I think it's true that they did so for that reason. Once again, the arcane knowledge that gave birth to the ability to forge the rings were said to have come from Sauron and his influence nonetheless, and had enough of a link to his own being to constitute a threat.

Having said that, I reiterate that Saruman was probably the "source" of his own missing knowledge, apart from that discovered by the Elves, and therefore wouldn't have necessarily fallen under the power of the One. But even if Sauron was powerful enough to instantly infuse himself into every ring subsequently made, if any, he could only do so while in possession of the One Ring. So whether Sarumans ring was subject to the One (which I doubt) or not, until Sauron recovered the One Ring, he and the Elf Lords were quite safe from the hazard of becoming wraiths or Nazgul. And given their magically potent and immortal nature, becoming rather, dark and twisted servants of a higher order than the Nazgul would be liklier in any event.

[Alfirin]

Another fun thought.

Long ago, I started a thread which broached the subject of whether there were orginally supposed to be FOUR, or even FIVE eleven rings; that since each elven ring seemed to be tied to an element, it was odd that there was no ring for Earth (or Spirit, but the One ring fits that quite well in and of itself) Now I'm wondering if Saruman's attempt a a ring would have resulted in just that, a ring of earth. You have said that Saruman might have been able to create a ring on par with the elven rings, and given sarumans love of metal, machinery and tecnology, earth would certainly seem to be his element. Pity we never get a description of what the ring looks like, if it had a green stone (my best guess as to the color of the earth element given red fire, white water and blue sky) that might say a lot.

[blantyr]

Interesting conjectures here. Don't have any answers, but might throw up a few other issues.

I'm inclined to think Saruman's ring less than the 20 Great Rings. Would its power fade after the destruction of The One? Frodo and Sam at least would be aware of Saruman's ring from the Council of Elrond, yet there was no mention of checking his body after his death. I have this image of Frodo and Sam, after their long trip, after the cleansing of the Shire, sitting down in Bag End with a ring on the table between them, likely golden, likely no gem. I've also wondered, if when Elanor went to Minas Tirith with Aragorn and Arwen, if Sam might have asked her, since she was going to be down near Mount Doom anyway, if she might toss this little trinket in the Crack of Doom.

I've also wondered how a wizard's staff compared in power to the Great Rings. They certainly seemed to break more easily. At a guess they might be as The Five, greater than The Seven, less than The Three?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by blantyr

I'm inclined to think Saruman's ring less than the 20 Great Rings. Would its power fade after the destruction of The One? Frodo and Sam at least would be aware of Saruman's ring from the Council of Elrond, yet there was no mention of checking his body after his death.

Whatever Saruman's ring was, no one seemed to be all that concerned about it, including one who knew Saruman better than any: Gandalf. He failed to mention it again after the Council, and even let Saruman pass him and the other travelers by in Dunland, knowing that Saruman might still have it. That tells me that Gandalf had some insight that the ring was not a threat, either as an instrument of power, or a corrupting influence.

Originally Posted by blantyr

I've also wondered how a wizard's staff compared in power to the Great Rings. They certainly seemed to break more easily. At a guess they might be as The Five, greater than The Seven, less than The Three?

There have been some interesting threads here over the years about the staves of the Istari, and what they actually did. Here is one of the most recent.

I don't think the staves and the rings are comparable. The Rings of Power imparted to the wearer power that did not belong to them originally. The staves were, in my opinion, a means of focusing the user's innate "magical" power, much as the wands in the Harry Potter series.

[FlameofAnor]

Is it not realistic to assume Saruman will fight alongside Sauron and Melkor at Dagor Dagorath - the Final Battle? It would suit him. Also, if memory serves me correctly, in one of Tolkeinls volumes, did he not say a third evil would rise as Sauron's equal and fight in The End with Melkor? Could be him, eh?