IHOP - The International House of Panacea

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Yeah, maybe it's time for me to re-read FotR, eh Legate?

Considering what you've said I agree that the two rings had something to do with defending the respective realms. If have time I might return with some additional thoughts on the subject.

[alatar]

Thank you all for your wonderful posts! I hadn't expected/predicted that this is where the thread would have gone. That said...

- I'm currently researching Rivendell more to put some weight to the inference that visitors stopped by.

- How long could an unrelated Elf stay, and if so would he/she have to 'kick in' some help?

- When the hobbits reach Bree, Sam suggests that instead of the Prancing Pony that they find lodging amongst some local hobbit families. How would this arrangement work (though the accommodations be somewhat less than those found at the Last Homely House) ?

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by alatar

When the hobbits reach Bree, Sam suggests that instead of the Prancing Pony that they find lodging amongst some local hobbit families. How would this arrangement work (though the accommodations be somewhat less than those found at the Last Homely House) ?

Sounds like an opportunity to open a hobbit bed and breakfast -- though with hobbits, there would probably have to be more meals than just breakfast thrown into the deal.

[Rumil]

Hi all,

excellent ad Alatar, can I book online?

perhaps Switzerland is the second-choice holiday destination (dunno if Elrond accepts Mastercard)

so, interesting pic of Rivendell by JRRT and explanation of its possible inspiration here-

Rivendell Switzerland

and some quotes from that site-

"not only the similarity between Tolkien's painting of Rivendell and the Lauterbrunnen, Valley, but also:
a) that Tolkien had visited Lauterbrunnen in 1911
b) that he had come down into the valley by an unusual route that extactly mirrors the rather perverse route his charaters insist on taking into Rivendell
c) That Lauterbrunnen essentially means the same as Greyflood & Hoarwell
d) That Tolkien mirrored the sound of the name Lauterbrunnen itself in the English and Elivsh names for the Rivendell river: ie Loudwater & Bruinen.

Notice the 'perverse route' into Rivendell, that was, in The Hobbit, only possible to follow by looking for small white marker stones that were often overgrown.

It seems strange that Elrond held out against Sauron's Second Age army in what is essentially a large unfortified country house in a valley. However I think there must have been some peculiarities of geography going on here, for example the cliffs dominating Rivendell being inaccessible from the 'outside' due to sheer drops or raging torrents or somesuch. Also the route into the Valley must have passed some 'choke points' where a company of good bowmen could effectively hold off an army indefinitely.

On hospitality, I think there are traditional rules in many cultures that a guest should be treated most generously, even should they be a rival or enemy. I'm sure this was heavily linked with social status, so a wandering knight might be feasted and given a seat at the lord's table, whereas a ruffianly vagabond would be given some scraps and allowed one night in the stables.

I think unrelated elves would be very welcome at Rivendell (and I'm pretty sure that Thranduil, for example, was regularly in touch with Elrond. Galadriel and Cirdan definitely were). I'd also think that the elves would have had sufficient social grace to limit their stays to a reasonable length, though I bet Elrond had a few Osanwe-ish tricks up his sleeve to give those who overstayed their welcome 'itchy feet'. In our history young noblemen often joined the household of an allied lord, partly fostering (perhaps partly as a hostage) moving on to join the Hearth-Troops of their host to gain military experience.

Meanwhile hobbits in Bree, I guess the ideal for Sam would have been to find a long-lost relative and be put-up by them. I guess otherwise some hobbits took in lodgers, or did a B&B (or as Ibrin says B&B&B&B) though with hobbit generosity it'd be like two grannies refusing to let each other pay for tea when the guest offered some payment.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Rumil

so, interesting pic of Rivendell by JRRT and explanation of its possible inspiration here-

Rivendell Switzerland

Thanks for the link, Rumil. Has anyone cashed in on said location and built a hotel?

On hospitality, I think there are traditional rules in many cultures that a guest should be treated most generously, even should they be a rival or enemy. I'm sure this was heavily linked with social status, so a wandering knight might be feasted and given a seat at the lord's table, whereas a ruffianly vagabond would be given some scraps and allowed one night in the stables.

Would have any hobbits, assuming that the Travelers skipped the entertainment as the Pony and found a hobbit family to put them up, asked for anything in return? Would Merry leave a penny, or would Frodo have to sing for his supper, or would some other service be asked or expected?

Just seems that if you lived near a road, you could be losing some vital sustenance every time some group tromped by on some foolish mission.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by alatar

Just seems that if you lived near a road, you could be losing some vital sustenance every time some group tromped by on some foolish mission.

Yes, but consider who the majority of the travelers in Eriador seem to have been in the Third Age: Dwarves and Rangers. I can't see either group seeking lodging in hobbit-holes.
Anyway, everyone knows what terrible guests Dwarves are. They eat all your seed-cakes and force you to run around madly trying to keep up with their appetites. And never a please or thank you!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Anyway, everyone knows what terrible guests Dwarves are. They eat all your seed-cakes and force you to run around madly trying to keep up with their appetites. And never a please or thank you!

To say nothing of the havoc they wreak with your glasses and plates!

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by alatar

When the hobbits reach Bree, Sam suggests that instead of the Prancing Pony that they find lodging amongst some local hobbit families. How would this arrangement work (though the accommodations be somewhat less than those found at the Last Homely House) ?

I imagine it'd be something rather like a homestay. Sam is banking on the idea of hobbit hospitality that existed within the Shire--hobbits may be insular but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take a guest in, even if he is from all of twenty miles away!

However, I have to wonder whether that same courtesy actually existed within the Breelands, where iller sorts of people prowled and not everyone was to be trusted to behave himself in someone else's home. No doubt Sam is thinking that hobbits are hobbits and that's enough to be able to trust someone else--especially if that someone is relatively familiar in a new setting.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

No doubt Sam is thinking that hobbits are hobbits and that's enough to be able to trust someone else--especially if that someone is relatively familiar in a new setting.

The four of them probably could have found some lodging for a night or two at least. After all, the Shire hobbits were descended from the Breelanders, and that fact was commonly recognised.
Any chance of that would have been gone after Frodo's 'prank' with the Ring however. Even the Underhills from Staddle who had taken to Frodo had shunned him after that. News of that affair likely would have traveled fast.