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Old 05-19-2009, 08:11 AM   #1
Tuor in Gondolin
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Sting

It was a rather foolish decision by PJ. All he had to do was have the Three Walkers jump off the lead ship, wave to soldiers coming off it with him and say something like,
"Now men of South Gondor, follow me!" And left any explanation of why the green slime wasn't there to the extended dvd.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:41 AM   #2
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All he had to do was have the Three Walkers jump off the lead ship, wave to soldiers coming off it with him and say something like
-Tuor
But that's where the effects of poor planning really can nip someone in the rear. What at first seems like a minor change, spirals into major distortions.

When PJ decides for Aragorn to tell Elrond in Dunharrow "there are no more men," there is no way for Aragorn to show up on Pelennor with Men, without the audience thinking...wait a second where did these men come from?

Think of Theoden treating Helm's Deep as a retreat in the movies. It does not seem to be a major change from the books, what is the big deal if Theoden goes to Helm's Deep to escape war, or to head off to war? That minor change, creates more severe distortions later.

Because, in the movies, Theoden is not expecting to go into a battle with Saruman, he is going to Helm's Deep as a retreat.

Now, how does Theoden find out that Saruman is coming and there will be a fight?
-This forces someone to warn Theoden of the approaching battle. Gandalf is gone, so I guess Jackson decided to choose Aragorn as the person. Now Aragorn needs to be seperated from Theoden, insert Warg attack, Aragorn falling off the cliff and spotting Saruman's massive army.

Another problem this creates is Theoden is trying to escape war, so he takes the women and children, and apparently doesn't take many soldiers and there doesn't seem to be many soldiers stations at Helm's Deep. If it is being used as a place of retreat and hide...why take many soldiers?
-Now that Saruman is coming with 10,000 Rohan needs more soldiers, insert the Elves coming from Lorien.

The problem here is how do the Elves get there within a matter of hours? This has created confusion as to whether the Elves have some sort of Scotty beaming device, or fleet foot potion...etc

I hope this isn't too far off topic, but one seemingly minor change (in Jackson's view) actually forces more and more changes later in the movies, because it wasn't effectively planned out. He just went day to day deciding whatever he wanted to do, instead of planning how one change will effect the movie.

Basically with the decision to inflate Sauron's numbers to 300,000 at the Battle of Pelennor, while keeping Gondor's and Rohan's forces the same, Jackson painted himself between a rock and a hard place. How does Gondor overcome those odds? Well, I guess there needs to be an unstoppable wave of ghosts.
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Old 05-20-2009, 03:18 PM   #3
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Kent,

I Think you're very largely correct. But there's an additional factor, a huge factor: PJ is still basically a zombie-movie director. He threw stuff in because he though it would look kewl, and to hell with either the plot or meaning of Tolkien's book. Water zombies in the Dead Marches! Green Scrubbing Zombies at the Pelennor! Avalanche of skulls! Giant trolls storming the Gate of Gondor! Legolas shieldboarding! Wizard fu! All PJ being a self-indulgent adolescent.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:01 PM   #4
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He certainly has a track record with the zombie movies.
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Old 05-21-2009, 04:41 AM   #5
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White Tree

And the neo-zombies aren't even good. I'm all for an excellent zombie-inspired sequence, but why does it all have to look like one of those soap-scum treatment commercials gone horribly wrong? By God - just look at what the zombie genre actually has to offer first!

(Yes, I am still griping about this, years later)
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:03 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin View Post
Kent,

Legolas shieldboarding!

Ye gads, another appalling inappropriate inclusion that totally turns that moment of drama into pure parody slapstick. What was PJ thinking!
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Old 05-21-2009, 05:07 PM   #7
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Speaking of elves, here's a puzzle. PJ originally wanted Arwen leading the
elves to Rohan (where they were about as effective in
survival as the Crack Suicids Squad in Life of Brian):
Quote:
Suicide Squad Leader: We are the Judean People's Front crack suicide squad! Suicide squad, attack!
[they all stab themselves]
Suicide Squad Leader: That showed 'em, huh?
So if she's there, and survives, then what! Oh, I know. She rides
with Merry and Gandalf to Minas Tirith on a really strong
Shadowfax.
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:44 AM   #8
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1420!

[QUOTE]The problem here is how do the Elves get there within a matter of hours? This has created confusion as to whether the Elves have some sort of Scotty beaming device, or fleet foot potion...etc [QUOTE]

maybe they had seven league boots, like the ones in "Howls moving castle"
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Old 08-26-2009, 01:34 PM   #9
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Ultimately, I think PJ did this simply for time. At that point we've had, what, 3 major battle sequences (Moria, Helms Deep, and Pelennor) and a handful of skirminshes, with another one to come shortly at the black gate. He needed a way to end the battle decisively and quickly so in a movie goers mind they would say "ok, that chapter is done".

IIRC, the dead don't even KILL anyone in the book. They literally scare the Corsairs away.
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