Noldor: Halls of Mandos: NO - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Pallando B.C · 10-29-2002, 04:33 AM

Does it seem fair that the Noldor go to the Halls of Mandos, when they were the ones actually acting when the Two Trees were destroyed. The Vanyar endured no hardship and yet recieved everlasting bliss on Valinor. The Noldor, in this young opinion, should be reborn and rewarded for their hardships. It also seems unfair for the likes of Gil-galad are punished for the wrong doings of Feanor and his house.

Selmo · 10-29-2002, 04:48 AM

The spirits of all Elves who died would stay in the Halls of Mandos for a period of time before being re-embodied.
Most would eventually be re-embodied, though I suppose Feanor's stay in Mandos would be very long, giving him plenty of time to reflect on his actions.

Alatar_69 · 10-29-2002, 04:49 AM

I agree with u on that Pallando as we have discussed it in private before. I have a query though who thinks Frodo and the rest of the ring bearers actually made it to Valinor considering it says in the Silmarillion that "In Araman the Blessed Realm was shut against the Noldor and of the many messengers that in after days sailed into the west none came ever to Valinor."???

HerenIstarion · 10-29-2002, 05:13 AM

Pallando B.C. - Concerning Halls of Mandos:

Quote:

HoME XII, Late Writings

Elves were destined to be 'immortal', that is not to die within the unknown limits decreed by the One, which at the most could be until the end of the life
of the Earth as a habitable realm. Their death - by any injury to their bodies so severe that it could not be healed - and the disembodiment of their spirits was an 'unnatural'and grievous matter. It was therefore the duty of the Valar [emphasis mine - H-I], by command of the One, to restore them to incarnate life, if they desired it. But this 'restoration' could be delayed by Manwe, if the fea while alive had done evil deeds and refused to repent of them, or
still harboured any malice against any other person among the living.

as for the ban you mention, Alatar_69, it was cancelled after Earendil's, so yes, Frodo & Co reached Aman alright

HerenIstarion · 10-29-2002, 05:14 AM

BTW, most worm welcome to the downs, both of you [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Galorme · 10-29-2002, 02:52 PM

I suppose Feanor's stay in Mandos would be very long

Yeah it was very long, as in he never got out and he eventually died there, or will depending on how you look at it.

Matthew2754 · 10-29-2002, 03:09 PM

I somehow doubt that Frodo was turned away from Aman when he was the defeater of Sauron. Perhaps this would mean nothing to the Valar as it seems all events do in ME in the Third Age. But i think that if Gandalf, a Maia vouched for him, he would have been admitted. Also, the elves had been leaving for years from the Grey Havens, so I don't see why they would turn them away.

lathspell · 10-29-2002, 03:23 PM

Frodo, Bilbo, Sam, Gimli and Legolas did not go to Aman. They went to Tol Eressea. The Lonely Isle within sight of the shores of Aman. Except Earendil and Elwing no mortal would set foot on the Blessed Realm.

greetings,
lathspell

HerenIstarion · 10-30-2002, 12:33 AM

Quite right, lathspell, my typing of Aman above was accidental.

Afrodal Fenyar · 10-30-2002, 07:28 AM

Actually they went to Undying Lands, or Aman, but not to Valinor. They went to Tól Eressea, as lathspell said. But the Lonely Isle was counted to Aman, I think? Not sure though..

And anyways, not very useful post. If somebody's from Finland, what's "pilkunviilaus" or "hiusten halkominen" in english? (For I don't think it's "hair-cutting"..)

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Afrodal Fenyar ]

HerenIstarion · 10-30-2002, 08:03 AM

it may be put that way too.

bombur is from Finland. AFAIK he's not accepting PMs, so try finding his recent posts (to make sure he will see the query. I remember him posting here
it was some time ago, so click his profile there to view his recent posts.

And, finally. most warm welcome to the Downs [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

**lindil** · 10-30-2002, 03:30 PM

The phrase in english is 'hair-splitting' or more commonly 'splitting hairs'.

10-29-2002, 04:33 AM	#1
Pallando B.C Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Rhûn, Tasmania Posts: 521	Noldor: Halls of Mandos: NO Does it seem fair that the Noldor go to the Halls of Mandos, when they were the ones actually acting when the Two Trees were destroyed. The Vanyar endured no hardship and yet recieved everlasting bliss on Valinor. The Noldor, in this young opinion, should be reborn and rewarded for their hardships. It also seems unfair for the likes of Gil-galad are punished for the wrong doings of Feanor and his house. __________________ {JHart} Support The Aussies!

10-29-2002, 04:49 AM	#3
Alatar_69 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Rhûn, Tasmania Posts: 21	I agree with u on that Pallando as we have discussed it in private before. I have a query though who thinks Frodo and the rest of the ring bearers actually made it to Valinor considering it says in the Silmarillion that "In Araman the Blessed Realm was shut against the Noldor and of the many messengers that in after days sailed into the west none came ever to Valinor."??? __________________ Blue Council Forever!

10-29-2002, 05:14 AM	#5
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	BTW, most worm welcome to the downs, both of you [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!

10-29-2002, 02:52 PM	#6
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	I suppose Feanor's stay in Mandos would be very long Yeah it was very long, as in he never got out and he eventually died there, or will depending on how you look at it. __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

10-29-2002, 03:23 PM	#8
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	Frodo, Bilbo, Sam, Gimli and Legolas did not go to Aman. They went to Tol Eressea. The Lonely Isle within sight of the shores of Aman. Except Earendil and Elwing no mortal would set foot on the Blessed Realm. greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

10-29-2002, 04:48 AM	#2
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	The spirits of all Elves who died would stay in the Halls of Mandos for a period of time before being re-embodied. Most would eventually be re-embodied, though I suppose Feanor's stay in Mandos would be very long, giving him plenty of time to reflect on his actions.

10-29-2002, 03:09 PM	#7
Matthew2754 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 22	I somehow doubt that Frodo was turned away from Aman when he was the defeater of Sauron. Perhaps this would mean nothing to the Valar as it seems all events do in ME in the Third Age. But i think that if Gandalf, a Maia vouched for him, he would have been admitted. Also, the elves had been leaving for years from the Grey Havens, so I don't see why they would turn them away.

10-30-2002, 12:33 AM	#9
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	Quite right, lathspell, my typing of Aman above was accidental. __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!

10-30-2002, 07:28 AM	#10
Afrodal Fenyar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 94	Actually they went to Undying Lands, or Aman, but not to Valinor. They went to Tól Eressea, as lathspell said. But the Lonely Isle was counted to Aman, I think? Not sure though.. And anyways, not very useful post. If somebody's from Finland, what's "pilkunviilaus" or "hiusten halkominen" in english? (For I don't think it's "hair-cutting"..) [ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Afrodal Fenyar ] __________________ "Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing. To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking: Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!" ~Eomer

10-30-2002, 08:03 AM	#11
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	it may be put that way too. bombur is from Finland. AFAIK he's not accepting PMs, so try finding his recent posts (to make sure he will see the query. I remember him posting here it was some time ago, so click his profile there to view his recent posts. And, finally. most warm welcome to the Downs [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!

10-30-2002, 03:30 PM	#12
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	The phrase in english is 'hair-splitting' or more commonly 'splitting hairs'. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.