bombadil being a dwarf - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

lore_master · 10-02-2003, 01:23 PM

suppose old tom was one of the seven dwarven fathers. but he escaped Eru's punishment, and fled into the wild. he eventually came to middle earth and stayed at the old forest.

his description almost fits that of a dwarf, long beard, shorter that most men.

just a thought
cheers

[ October 02, 2003: Message edited by: lore_master ]

Lord of Angmar · 10-02-2003, 02:42 PM

An original enough theory, lore_master, though highly improbable. He shares no distinguishable character traits with the quintessential dwarf. He is a nature-lover, not a craftsman of stone and gems. What it comes down to is that this theory is extremely implausible in the context of Tolkien's work, and while Bombadil's origins may be fiercely debated among Tolkien scholars, your theory will almost certainly not come into discussion. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Legolas · 10-02-2003, 06:53 PM

He's far too careless and not preoccupied with riches enough to be a dwarf - appearance is his only dwarf-like characteristic. A dwarf, even one of the seven, would've been affected by the One Ring.

tom bombariffic · 10-03-2003, 10:37 AM

Indeed! It's an interesting theory, but as has been pointed out, it's riddled with holes, such as the ring's lack of effect on him, his love of Nature, and so on and so forth. Although he does also love jewels, remember how delighted he was with the brooch he found? Hoom hoom, its interesting, but very improbable. Also, how on earth could you escape punishment from Eru? He's kinda omniscient and so on...

Eldar14 · 10-03-2003, 11:22 AM

Yes, he was excited for the brooch, but a dwarf would have been excited for the sake of the brooch being beautiful, but he was not really excited at the brooch, but its potentiality as a gift for Goldberry.

kittygirl02 · 10-09-2003, 07:34 PM

Well, they said his race is unknown, but he was the master of the forest, so maybe he was they only one created of his kind, so that's why his race is unknown.

Voralphion · 10-09-2003, 07:45 PM

What were the dwarven fathers being punished for that they had to escape from Eru??

Lord of Angmar · 10-09-2003, 08:09 PM

Voralphion, the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves were not being punished by Eru, Eru would just not allow them to wander in Ea before his own children did so. He commanded Aule to have them sleep until his own children appeared. This was not to punish anything that the Dwarven Fathers did.

I think a good summary to this thread, given the initial topic, would go something like this:

No, whatever Tom Bombadil was, he was no dwarf. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Cheers!
-Angmar

10-11-2003, 06:07 AM

i have always wondered about old Tom.
seeing as i can find nothing pointing to him being a Maia, or else Gandalf and such wouldnt be concerned with the cares of others. maybe he could be a form of Eru? jus a suggestion

Lord of Angmar · 10-11-2003, 06:09 AM

Actually, Uruviel, the idea that Tom Bombadil was in fact Eru has been brought up before many times in these fora. The simple fact is that it is basically impossible, given what we know about Ol' Bombadillo and given Tolkien's own words about him.

[ October 11, 2003: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ]

Earendilyon · 10-11-2003, 02:32 PM

All seven Dwarven Fathers are accounted for. Somewhere in the texts it is told where each and everyone of the awoke (somewhere in HoME, I think).

Eladar · 10-11-2003, 03:14 PM

Yes, according to Morgoth's Ring, the Dwarf fathers' bodies are kept under special care because from time to time their spirits return and the fathers awaken from death.

Besides, Bombadil can do what no dwarf can do. What tree would listen the a dwarf?

***Earendilyon my friend, check your profile***

Olorin_TLA · 10-11-2003, 04:19 PM

Saying Bombadil isn't a Maia because he doesn't act like Gandalf is like saying Sauron isn't one because he doesn't act like Gandalf; that Morgoth isn't a Valar because he doesn't act like Manwe; that Grima isn't a Man because he doesn't act like Théoden; that Ted Sandyman isn't a Hobbit becuase he doesn't act like Sam...etc.

elfling · 10-12-2003, 05:14 PM

Trying to guess what ole Tom is, is useless even JRRT does'nt know what he is. He describes him as an egnigma. who are we mere mortals to question JRRT.

Finwe · 10-12-2003, 08:41 PM

Ah, but humanity was born to question its surroundings, that is one of its most endearing qualities!

If Tom Bombadil was a Dwarf, then he probably wouldn't have been able to get the trees to "talk" to him, or "listen" to him. I daresay that if he was a Dwarf, and if he did try singing to a tree, it would probably just swat him out of annoyance! Dwarves and Trees have a history of not getting along, so good ol' Tom's proximity to the Old Forest would prove that he isn't a Dwarf.

Olorin_TLA · 10-13-2003, 11:35 AM

Not neccesarilly: Ents etc. don't like tree-cutters: Dwarves characteristically have a reputation for such, but seeing as Bombadil is "Eldest" he wouldn't be subject to those stereotypes, having made himself known before, and since he loved trees, they wouldn't have thought he'd chop them down.

I still don't beleive he's a Dwarf though. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

10-02-2003, 01:23 PM	#1
lore_master Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Valhalla Posts: 116	bombadil being a dwarf suppose old tom was one of the seven dwarven fathers. but he escaped Eru's punishment, and fled into the wild. he eventually came to middle earth and stayed at the old forest. his description almost fits that of a dwarf, long beard, shorter that most men. just a thought cheers [ October 02, 2003: Message edited by: lore_master ] __________________ As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm. Jump. It is not as wide as you think

10-02-2003, 02:42 PM	#2
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	An original enough theory, lore_master, though highly improbable. He shares no distinguishable character traits with the quintessential dwarf. He is a nature-lover, not a craftsman of stone and gems. What it comes down to is that this theory is extremely implausible in the context of Tolkien's work, and while Bombadil's origins may be fiercely debated among Tolkien scholars, your theory will almost certainly not come into discussion. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

10-02-2003, 06:53 PM	#3
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	He's far too careless and not preoccupied with riches enough to be a dwarf - appearance is his only dwarf-like characteristic. A dwarf, even one of the seven, would've been affected by the One Ring. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

10-03-2003, 10:37 AM	#4
tom bombariffic Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In the house of Tom Bombariffic Posts: 196	Indeed! It's an interesting theory, but as has been pointed out, it's riddled with holes, such as the ring's lack of effect on him, his love of Nature, and so on and so forth. Although he does also love jewels, remember how delighted he was with the brooch he found? Hoom hoom, its interesting, but very improbable. Also, how on earth could you escape punishment from Eru? He's kinda omniscient and so on... __________________ The 'hum' generated by an electric car is not in fact the noise of the engine, but that of the driver's self-righteousness oscillating at a high frequency.

10-03-2003, 11:22 AM	#5
Eldar14 Wight Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: the Cottage of Lost Play Posts: 182	Yes, he was excited for the brooch, but a dwarf would have been excited for the sake of the brooch being beautiful, but he was not really excited at the brooch, but its potentiality as a gift for Goldberry. __________________ "Come away! Let the cowards keep this city!" -- Fëanor to the Noldor

10-09-2003, 07:34 PM	#6
kittygirl02 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Middle Earth Posts: 61	Well, they said his race is unknown, but he was the master of the forest, so maybe he was they only one created of his kind, so that's why his race is unknown. __________________ Flames are your source of faith.A tool of good, not evil. I may be different, but differences don't make you special.It's what you do with your differences that make you special.

10-09-2003, 07:45 PM	#7
Voralphion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sharkey's End Posts: 267	What were the dwarven fathers being punished for that they had to escape from Eru?? __________________ His sword was long his lance was keen His shining helm afar was seen The countless stars of heavens field Were mirrored in his silver shield

10-09-2003, 08:09 PM	#8
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Voralphion, the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves were not being punished by Eru, Eru would just not allow them to wander in Ea before his own children did so. He commanded Aule to have them sleep until his own children appeared. This was not to punish anything that the Dwarven Fathers did. I think a good summary to this thread, given the initial topic, would go something like this: No, whatever Tom Bombadil was, he was no dwarf. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Cheers! -Angmar __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

10-11-2003, 06:07 AM	#9
Uruviel, Lady of Lorien Guest Posts: n/a	i have always wondered about old Tom. seeing as i can find nothing pointing to him being a Maia, or else Gandalf and such wouldnt be concerned with the cares of others. maybe he could be a form of Eru? jus a suggestion

10-11-2003, 06:09 AM	#10
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Actually, Uruviel, the idea that Tom Bombadil was in fact Eru has been brought up before many times in these fora. The simple fact is that it is basically impossible, given what we know about Ol' Bombadillo and given Tolkien's own words about him. [ October 11, 2003: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ] __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

10-11-2003, 02:32 PM	#11
Earendilyon Wight Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 166	All seven Dwarven Fathers are accounted for. Somewhere in the texts it is told where each and everyone of the awoke (somewhere in HoME, I think). __________________ "For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia.

10-11-2003, 03:14 PM	#12
Eladar Animated Skeleton Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 36	Yes, according to Morgoth's Ring, the Dwarf fathers' bodies are kept under special care because from time to time their spirits return and the fathers awaken from death. Besides, Bombadil can do what no dwarf can do. What tree would listen the a dwarf? *Earendilyon my friend, check your profile*

10-11-2003, 04:19 PM	#13
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Saying Bombadil isn't a Maia because he doesn't act like Gandalf is like saying Sauron isn't one because he doesn't act like Gandalf; that Morgoth isn't a Valar because he doesn't act like Manwe; that Grima isn't a Man because he doesn't act like Théoden; that Ted Sandyman isn't a Hobbit becuase he doesn't act like Sam...etc. __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

10-12-2003, 05:14 PM	#14
elfling Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: asheville,nc Posts: 86	Trying to guess what ole Tom is, is useless even JRRT does'nt know what he is. He describes him as an egnigma. who are we mere mortals to question JRRT. __________________ And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the morning and the night...All shall love me and despair!

10-12-2003, 08:41 PM	#15
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Ah, but humanity was born to question its surroundings, that is one of its most endearing qualities! If Tom Bombadil was a Dwarf, then he probably wouldn't have been able to get the trees to "talk" to him, or "listen" to him. I daresay that if he was a Dwarf, and if he did try singing to a tree, it would probably just swat him out of annoyance! Dwarves and Trees have a history of not getting along, so good ol' Tom's proximity to the Old Forest would prove that he isn't a Dwarf. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

10-13-2003, 11:35 AM	#16
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Not neccesarilly: Ents etc. don't like tree-cutters: Dwarves characteristically have a reputation for such, but seeing as Bombadil is "Eldest" he wouldn't be subject to those stereotypes, having made himself known before, and since he loved trees, they wouldn't have thought he'd chop them down. I still don't beleive he's a Dwarf though. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"