Help Please!!! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tigerlily Gamgee · 02-17-2002, 01:53 AM

Hi, this is my first post on this board. I just recently became a Tolkien fan (after seeing the movie) & in less then a month I have read The Hobbit & The Lord of the Rings trilogy. I am asking for help about the end of the third book. I have been reading through past posts, but I am still a little confused. I understand the Frodo goes West with Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, and others, but I am a little confused as to what "West" is. I have read of the Undying Lands in other posts, as well as a few other places. I am just curious as to where they sailed and what happened to them. My friend's theory is that they went to die, but I don't believe that (it depresses me too much). Can anyone help me? Am I making sense?

Bruce MacCulloch · 02-17-2002, 02:39 AM

Tigerlily - the answer to your question can be found in the Silmarillion. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Rosa Underhill · 02-17-2002, 04:59 AM

Welcome to the 'Downs Tigerlily!

Tolkien himself said that Frodo, Bilbo, Sam and Gimli probably lived out their natural lifespans in the West then passed away. Mortals aren't allowed in the Undying Lands but the Hobbits recieved what healing was available to them and rest for the remainder of their days.

It is kind of sad but everyone, even heroes, pass away sooner or later. What I want to know is were they go after they die.

Hmm... Anyone ever read "Leaf by Niggle"? I wonder if Tolkien had a similar experience when he went Home...

Tigerlily Gamgee · 02-17-2002, 11:34 AM

Thanks for the answers. I was really upset when my friend told me that they died - I mean, of course the mortals would die eventually... I will have to read that book, I am going to the library today to see if they have it. I am just so in love with these books. I find it absolutely amazing that Tolkien created all of this, he's a genius! It almost seems as if these were actual events. I am really glad I found this board so that I can talk to everyone about them!

02-21-2002, 01:42 PM

Yes, your answers are found in the Silmarilion, but be careful! Read through all appendixes first, paying close attention to family trees - in fact copy them down in your own hand first it will help you to remember them. Do the same when you get the Silmarilion before you read it. Even Christopher T declared it a hard read and these approaches will help.

Kuruharan · 02-21-2002, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Hmm... Anyone ever read "Leaf by Niggle"? I wonder if Tolkien had a similar experience when he went Home...

Now there's a nice thought! You can almost imagine him sitting there in a "Rivendellish" setting pondering and creating. Filling in all the things that did not get finished before his departure. Whether or not Galadriel was actually part of the Revolt of the Noldor, or if after the death of the Two Trees she had just had her passport (so to speak) revoked. Whether or not it really was Glorfindel of Gondolin and when he came back. Who exactly was Gil-Galad's father, and whatever happened to the two Blue Wizards. Not to mention all the other things that happended in the world that we have no clue about. Like whether or not there was resistance to Sauron's rule in Rhun and points East, or in Harad and points South. And whether Balrogs had wings (you knew that was coming).

Aralaithiel · 02-21-2002, 04:05 PM

Not the balrog wing controversy AGAIN!! LOL!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
I have got to get a hold of that "Niggle"!

Kuruharan · 02-21-2002, 09:30 PM

"Leaf by Niggle" is a lovely story, all about how art is used to introduce Niggle, his neighbor Parish, and Parish's wife (maybe we don't see her get 'there' but it was implied that she was coming) to heaven. I won't spoil the story (any more than I already have) for those of you who have not read it yet.
It's well worth the read, as I said it's a lovely story.
(And that's high praise coming from a cold, cynical person like myself

)
So read it!!

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 02-22-2002, 06:36 AM

Leaf by Niggle is one of the most beautiful stories I have ever read, not to mention offering an insight into a remarkable mind. Oi were fair choked, oi doan't moind tellin' 'ee.
I bought a book entitled Tales from the Perilous Realm, which contained Leaf by Niggle, Smith of Wootton Major, Farmer Giles of Ham and The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, a slim volume that got me through a very nasty dose of the flu.

02-17-2002, 01:53 AM	#1
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,055	Help Please!!! Hi, this is my first post on this board. I just recently became a Tolkien fan (after seeing the movie) & in less then a month I have read The Hobbit & The Lord of the Rings trilogy. I am asking for help about the end of the third book. I have been reading through past posts, but I am still a little confused. I understand the Frodo goes West with Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, and others, but I am a little confused as to what "West" is. I have read of the Undying Lands in other posts, as well as a few other places. I am just curious as to where they sailed and what happened to them. My friend's theory is that they went to die, but I don't believe that (it depresses me too much). Can anyone help me? Am I making sense? __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

02-17-2002, 02:39 AM	#2
Bruce MacCulloch Dead Man of Dunharrow Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 651	Tigerlily - the answer to your question can be found in the Silmarillion. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ `A blunderbuss, was it?' said he, scratching his head. `I thought it was horseflies!'

02-17-2002, 04:59 AM	#3
Rosa Underhill Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waymeet, the Shire Posts: 297	Welcome to the 'Downs Tigerlily! Tolkien himself said that Frodo, Bilbo, Sam and Gimli probably lived out their natural lifespans in the West then passed away. Mortals aren't allowed in the Undying Lands but the Hobbits recieved what healing was available to them and rest for the remainder of their days. It is kind of sad but everyone, even heroes, pass away sooner or later. What I want to know is were they go after they die. Hmm... Anyone ever read "Leaf by Niggle"? I wonder if Tolkien had a similar experience when he went Home... __________________ WWAHD? (What would a Hobbit do?)

02-17-2002, 11:34 AM	#4
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,055	Thanks for the answers. I was really upset when my friend told me that they died - I mean, of course the mortals would die eventually... I will have to read that book, I am going to the library today to see if they have it. I am just so in love with these books. I find it absolutely amazing that Tolkien created all of this, he's a genius! It almost seems as if these were actual events. I am really glad I found this board so that I can talk to everyone about them! __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

02-21-2002, 04:05 PM	#7
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	Not the balrog wing controversy AGAIN!! LOL!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I have got to get a hold of that "Niggle"! __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

02-21-2002, 01:42 PM	#5
jenseng Guest Posts: n/a	Yes, your answers are found in the Silmarilion, but be careful! Read through all appendixes first, paying close attention to family trees - in fact copy them down in your own hand first it will help you to remember them. Do the same when you get the Silmarilion before you read it. Even Christopher T declared it a hard read and these approaches will help.

02-21-2002, 09:30 PM	#8
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,589	"Leaf by Niggle" is a lovely story, all about how art is used to introduce Niggle, his neighbor Parish, and Parish's wife (maybe we don't see her get 'there' but it was implied that she was coming) to heaven. I won't spoil the story (any more than I already have) for those of you who have not read it yet. It's well worth the read, as I said it's a lovely story. (And that's high praise coming from a cold, cynical person like myself ) So read it!! __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... Last edited by Kuruharan; 06-22-2005 at 10:52 AM. Reason: Cleaning up old code.

02-22-2002, 06:36 AM	#9
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,178	Leaf by Niggle is one of the most beautiful stories I have ever read, not to mention offering an insight into a remarkable mind. Oi were fair choked, oi doan't moind tellin' 'ee. I bought a book entitled Tales from the Perilous Realm, which contained Leaf by Niggle, Smith of Wootton Major, Farmer Giles of Ham and The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, a slim volume that got me through a very nasty dose of the flu. __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?