The 10th Fellowship member? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

WarBringer · 12-06-2002, 08:12 PM

Could gollum be considered an protector of frodo?Trailing him, guiding him(although almost to his doom.He even fed him. He did help, what are your thoughts on this?(Dirty Critism of my views is encouraged)

Aylwen Dreamsong · 12-06-2002, 08:18 PM

I don't like your thread title, to start with! LoL. Because, the thing is, the Fellowship only lasted one book (out of the six books made into three, I mean). The Fellowship was made and broken inside the same book, Book II. So, Gollum could not be considered a 10th Fellowship-er (I know, that's not a word).

I also think that the only reason Gollum helped Frodo was a) to be near the Ring and to try and steal it. and b) to not be left to die. In his mind it was probably better to stick with two hobbits and help them to get Mordor the easy way than to have to stalk them the whole way....or maybe not....anyway....forget the past paragraph...

I just mainly wanted to say that I didn't like your thread title...FYI. Just to let ya know.

LoL. Sorry. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Aylwen

WarBringer · 12-06-2002, 08:31 PM

it is a pretty bad title...anyway, i meant more of a helper on the quest then a Fellowship-er(I like that!)

Arwen Imladris · 12-06-2002, 09:55 PM

There were lots of people who aided the quest. Everything that happened in LOTR had to do with the quest. Tom, Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn, Faramir, Eowyn. Any body on the "good" side pretty much helped in some way.

Legolas · 12-07-2002, 12:24 AM

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the thread title. None of the characters mentioned performed the same duty as the members of the Fellowship did - Gollum did. He stayed with Sam and Frodo through part of their journey. The others only provided rest and advice. If there was to be someone considered a tenth member of the Fellowship, Gollum certainly was it.

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 12-07-2002, 03:22 AM

I don't feel like writing very much at all, for my own reaons. But, I think that the reason why gollum stayed with Frodo was because of the ring. I have many points on gollum and the ring (look at the book section). But the main reason was the ring, in general.

Raefindel · 12-07-2002, 01:00 PM

Yes, I would agree with Aylwen & Willie. Gollum can hardly be said to have been "in fellowship" with the other members. It's a contradiction in terms.

[ December 07, 2002: Message edited by: Raefindel ]

piosenniel · 12-07-2002, 01:10 PM

Perhaps not a member of the Fellowship of the Ring, since those included were fairly well delineated.

But he can most definitely be considered one of the Ringbearers, don't you think?

Orual · 12-07-2002, 02:18 PM

Absolutely, he was a Ringbearer. For hundreds of years. There's no doubt about that.

Was Gollum a member of the Fellowship...that's a very interesting question! I'd say in all technicality, no. He wasn't one of the nine set out from Rivendell to destroy the Ring. And he didn't want to destroy the Ring at all, so no, he wasn't part of the Fellowship. But he did perform part of the function that the Fellowship was designed for; to aid Frodo. He guided Frodo and Sam through Mordor, albeit a little poorly and not with the most altruistic of intentions. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

I, too, was thrown for a loop with the title...lol! But the question is very good.

~*~Orual~*~

piosenniel · 12-07-2002, 02:57 PM

I have often wondered that had Gollum's better/Frodo side won out (had Sam been more nurturing of this possibility), if we might have seen Gollum bound for the West, as were the other Ringbearers.

Orual · 12-07-2002, 03:22 PM

If Gollum had conquered the Ring's influence over him, and survived, then I suppose he'd probably go with the other Ringbearers into the West. But if it had continued its hold over him, and he had survived, then I don't think that he would have been allowed to go into the West. He kept the Ring too irresponsibly when he was its bearer to go with those who kept their Rings with the best intentions, and what wisdom, self-control, and strength they had. Of course, Gollum didn't know what the Ring was when he got it, but his first act when he saw the Ring was to kill Deagol, so he got it under the worst of circumstances. Gandalf got his when Cirdan gave it to him (right?), and Galadriel and Elrond were their rings' original bearers. Frodo inherited the One, and Sam took it after he thought Frodo was dead, to complete the mission that Frodo had set out to do. So they all did what was absolutely best with the Rings when they were in possession, but Gollum did not, if you take my meaning, which I'm not making very clear...many apologies. I'm all muddled. [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

~*~Orual~*~

Melephelwen · 12-10-2002, 12:57 PM

Basically, I agree with Orual, but I just want to point out, that Elrond wasn't the original bearer of his ring. Of course Celebrimbor who made beared(gr?) it, but he gave Vilya to Gil-galad, who later gave it to Elrond. And Gandalf did get his ring from Círdan, who also got it from Gil-galad. (Just read that part of UT, living high on it [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] )

Orual · 12-10-2002, 08:55 PM

Thanks, Melephelwen! I haven't read UT yet, so I didn't know that. But it is, indeed, good to know. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

~*~Orual~*~

Aragorn Husband of Arwen · 12-10-2002, 09:46 PM

On every road, there is people that walk with you for a ways, then leave you. Gollum would be one of those. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Sam would be one who stays. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Legolas · 12-10-2002, 10:28 PM

I think the thought the original poster was trying to pose wasn't that Gollum was a member of the Fellowship. It was that he came the closest than any other character.

Konarmi · 12-11-2002, 12:57 AM

The Fellowship was only a security blanket. It would have been a fellowship if everyone had the same focus point. No one did.. except for the hobbits.

WarBringer · 12-11-2002, 02:26 PM

Konarmi-I don't agree with the fellowship being a security blanket-they all wanted the ring destroyed, and although some had personal goals, the ring was their main focus.

12-06-2002, 08:12 PM	#1
WarBringer Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wandering The North Posts: 184	The 10th Fellowship member? Could gollum be considered an protector of frodo?Trailing him, guiding him(although almost to his doom.He even fed him. He did help, what are your thoughts on this?(Dirty Critism of my views is encouraged) __________________ Fortune Favors the Bold...

12-06-2002, 08:18 PM	#2
Aylwen Dreamsong The Melody of Misery Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Island of Conclusions (You get there by jumping!)... Posts: 1,147	I don't like your thread title, to start with! LoL. Because, the thing is, the Fellowship only lasted one book (out of the six books made into three, I mean). The Fellowship was made and broken inside the same book, Book II. So, Gollum could not be considered a 10th Fellowship-er (I know, that's not a word). I also think that the only reason Gollum helped Frodo was a) to be near the Ring and to try and steal it. and b) to not be left to die. In his mind it was probably better to stick with two hobbits and help them to get Mordor the easy way than to have to stalk them the whole way....or maybe not....anyway....forget the past paragraph... I just mainly wanted to say that I didn't like your thread title...FYI. Just to let ya know. LoL. Sorry. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Aylwen __________________ ...Come down now, they'll say. But everything looks perfect from far away - Come down now! But we'll stay.

12-06-2002, 08:31 PM	#3
WarBringer Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wandering The North Posts: 184	it is a pretty bad title...anyway, i meant more of a helper on the quest then a Fellowship-er(I like that!) __________________ Fortune Favors the Bold...

12-06-2002, 09:55 PM	#4
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	There were lots of people who aided the quest. Everything that happened in LOTR had to do with the quest. Tom, Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn, Faramir, Eowyn. Any body on the "good" side pretty much helped in some way. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

12-07-2002, 12:24 AM	#5
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	There's absolutely nothing wrong with the thread title. None of the characters mentioned performed the same duty as the members of the Fellowship did - Gollum did. He stayed with Sam and Frodo through part of their journey. The others only provided rest and advice. If there was to be someone considered a tenth member of the Fellowship, Gollum certainly was it. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

12-07-2002, 03:22 AM	#6
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 573	I don't feel like writing very much at all, for my own reaons. But, I think that the reason why gollum stayed with Frodo was because of the ring. I have many points on gollum and the ring (look at the book section). But the main reason was the ring, in general. __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie

12-07-2002, 01:00 PM	#7
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Yes, I would agree with Aylwen & Willie. Gollum can hardly be said to have been "in fellowship" with the other members. It's a contradiction in terms. [ December 07, 2002: Message edited by: Raefindel ] __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

12-07-2002, 01:10 PM	#8
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Perhaps not a member of the Fellowship of the Ring, since those included were fairly well delineated. But he can most definitely be considered one of the Ringbearers, don't you think? __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

12-07-2002, 02:18 PM	#9
Orual Speaker of the Dead Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Superbia Posts: 868	Absolutely, he was a Ringbearer. For hundreds of years. There's no doubt about that. Was Gollum a member of the Fellowship...that's a very interesting question! I'd say in all technicality, no. He wasn't one of the nine set out from Rivendell to destroy the Ring. And he didn't want to destroy the Ring at all, so no, he wasn't part of the Fellowship. But he did perform part of the function that the Fellowship was designed for; to aid Frodo. He guided Frodo and Sam through Mordor, albeit a little poorly and not with the most altruistic of intentions. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] I, too, was thrown for a loop with the title...lol! But the question is very good. ~~Orual~~ __________________ "Oh, my god! I care so little, I almost passed out!" --Dr. Cox, "Scrubs"

12-07-2002, 02:57 PM	#10
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	I have often wondered that had Gollum's better/Frodo side won out (had Sam been more nurturing of this possibility), if we might have seen Gollum bound for the West, as were the other Ringbearers. __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

12-07-2002, 03:22 PM	#11
Orual Speaker of the Dead Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Superbia Posts: 868	If Gollum had conquered the Ring's influence over him, and survived, then I suppose he'd probably go with the other Ringbearers into the West. But if it had continued its hold over him, and he had survived, then I don't think that he would have been allowed to go into the West. He kept the Ring too irresponsibly when he was its bearer to go with those who kept their Rings with the best intentions, and what wisdom, self-control, and strength they had. Of course, Gollum didn't know what the Ring was when he got it, but his first act when he saw the Ring was to kill Deagol, so he got it under the worst of circumstances. Gandalf got his when Cirdan gave it to him (right?), and Galadriel and Elrond were their rings' original bearers. Frodo inherited the One, and Sam took it after he thought Frodo was dead, to complete the mission that Frodo had set out to do. So they all did what was absolutely best with the Rings when they were in possession, but Gollum did not, if you take my meaning, which I'm not making very clear...many apologies. I'm all muddled. [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] ~~Orual~~ __________________ "Oh, my god! I care so little, I almost passed out!" --Dr. Cox, "Scrubs"

12-10-2002, 12:57 PM	#12
Melephelwen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: the Middle of Nowhere Posts: 291	Basically, I agree with Orual, but I just want to point out, that Elrond wasn't the original bearer of his ring. Of course Celebrimbor who made beared(gr?) it, but he gave Vilya to Gil-galad, who later gave it to Elrond. And Gandalf did get his ring from Círdan, who also got it from Gil-galad. (Just read that part of UT, living high on it [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ) __________________ We're all following a strange melody We're all summoned by a tune We're following the piper And we dance beneath the moon

12-10-2002, 08:55 PM	#13
Orual Speaker of the Dead Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Superbia Posts: 868	Thanks, Melephelwen! I haven't read UT yet, so I didn't know that. But it is, indeed, good to know. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ~~Orual~~ __________________ "Oh, my god! I care so little, I almost passed out!" --Dr. Cox, "Scrubs"

12-10-2002, 09:46 PM	#14
Aragorn Husband of Arwen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the West... Posts: 30	On every road, there is people that walk with you for a ways, then leave you. Gollum would be one of those. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Sam would be one who stays. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Merry Christmas Everyone!

12-10-2002, 10:28 PM	#15
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	I think the thought the original poster was trying to pose wasn't that Gollum was a member of the Fellowship. It was that he came the closest than any other character. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

12-11-2002, 12:57 AM	#16
Konarmi Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 21	The Fellowship was only a security blanket. It would have been a fellowship if everyone had the same focus point. No one did.. except for the hobbits. __________________ .:Welcome to thelordoftherings.ca:.

12-11-2002, 02:26 PM	#17
WarBringer Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wandering The North Posts: 184	Konarmi-I don't agree with the fellowship being a security blanket-they all wanted the ring destroyed, and although some had personal goals, the ring was their main focus. __________________ Fortune Favors the Bold...