Beren and Lùthien to be published as stand alone volume

[Mithalwen]

Though not as single narrative.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/wha...ished-in-2017/

[Inziladun]

Nice! A definite addition to my Tolkien collection.

I hope that doesn't provide more of an impetus for PJ or his ilk to capitalize on a film version though,

[Kuruharan]

My reaction is a bit ambivalent.

I was disappointed by Kullervo and I think that release gave me a bit of a sour taste of releasing more of Tolkien's obscure work.

I hope there is some new information and not just a rehash of the information that has already been published in other works.

I know, I know. I'll turn in my fan card at the door.

[Mithadan]

From the description, it sounds like "History of the Tale of Beren and Luthien." It almost sounds as if there will be no material that has not been published previously.

{Edit} From the AFP report:

"For the book the tale of lovers Beren and Lúthien was extracted from "The History of Middle-earth", a 12-volume series of works that collected and analyzed material relating to Tolkien's work, compiled and edited by his son Christopher Tolkien."



"Christopher Tolkien has edited the new work and presented together for the first time Tolkien's original text as well as passages from later texts that rework the tale."

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

"Christopher Tolkien has edited the new work and presented together for the first time Tolkien's original text as well as passages from later texts that rework the tale."

Sounds like what CT did for The Children of Húrin, melding different versions of the story together. I'm still likely to buy it, just as I did CoH.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Sounds like what CT did for The Children of Húrin, melding different versions of the story together. I'm still likely to buy it, just as I did CoH.

I'm sure I will too.

They know their market.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Nice! A definite addition to my Tolkien collection.

I hope that doesn't provide more of an impetus for PJ or his ilk to capitalize on a film version though,

Wouldn't they be limited to what references can be found in the appendix of LotR?

Even for PJ and crew, that would be a bit of a stretch.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Wouldn't they be limited to what references can be found in the appendix of LotR?

Even for PJ and crew, that would be a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps that is exactly why C. Tolkien is releasing this book and thus prolonging the copyright to the entire compilation of Beren and Luthien stories. Thus the estate's lawyers can ensure Jackson or whomever doesn't try to dip into the story.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Perhaps that is exactly why C. Tolkien is releasing this book and thus prolonging the copyright to the entire compilation of Beren and Luthien stories. Thus the estate's lawyers can ensure Jackson or whomever doesn't try to dip into the story.

I hope Christopher Tolkien lives forever, then. So we never have to deal with a film adaption ever again.

That being said, I am trash and I will most certainly be buying this book.

[Faramir Jones]

Thanks for posting this news, Mithalwen.

While I'm a little ambivalent, like Kuruharan, having bought The Children of Húrin, I probably will buy this one too.

I was interested in what you had to say about copyright, Morthoron.

I've already posted this elsewhere; but the link below gives an amusing (or worse) idea about what Peter Jackson adapting The Silmarillion might look and sound like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFMwOu8_jsE

[Formendacil]

I too am expecting this to look a lot like The Children of Húrin--and as far as that expectation goes, I'm actually rather looking forward to it. Not that it would actually provide us with any new material--any expectation along those lines seems doomed to disappointment even if there ARE (as I incline to doubt) tidbits not previously seen before.

No, the reason I am would enjoy a Children of Húrin-esque "Beren and Lúthien" is because I think that volume did a good job of bringing one of the Tales of the First Age out of the realm of the Scholarly into the view of a general audience. Though The Silmarillion lacks the scholarly apparatus of the HoME, it is quite the first-time challenge to a reader: the prose is heightened and unusual, the plot is diffused by being a general history, and keeping track of so many characters is difficult. The succession of Unfinished Tales and the HoME only pushed ahead the idea that Tolkien's posthumous works are dry and only for the arch-fans.

My memory of things is that The Children of Húrin changed this--if only a little--and I think that "Beren and Lúthien" is even better suited to this treatment than "Túrin" was. As a reader myself who knows the complete legendarium, I like the idea of being able to pull out a single volume when I want to read a single tale.

So I'm happy enough (though definitely aware we're looking at another moneymaking enterprise for HarperCollins and the Tolkien Estate) if that's what the project turns out to be, but I think it important to set expectations accordingly.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

No, the reason I am would enjoy a <i>Children of Húrin</i>-esque "Beren and Lúthien" is because I think that volume did a good job of bringing one of the Tales of the First Age out of the realm of the Scholarly into the view of a general audience. Though <i>The Silmarillion</i> lacks the scholarly apparatus of the HoME, it is quite the first-time challenge to a reader: the prose is heightened and unusual, the plot is diffused by being a general history, and keeping track of so many characters is difficult. The succession of <i>Unfinished Tales</i> and the HoME only pushed ahead the idea that Tolkien's posthumous works are dry and only for the arch-fans.

Even with my skepticism I will hasten to concede that this is a good point.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Like Formy, I enjoyed CoH because it condensed many drafts of one story into one easy to digest volume. I had a hard time with all of the different versions of the story because none of them really felt finished, if you understand what I mean. The whole story was there in pieces before, but then we got one really nice volume. I remember reading the whole book on a peaceful Saturday afternoon and really enjoying it. I expect to have a similar experience with this new book.

As a bonus, my boyfriend has already promised to buy it for me! So that's really nice.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

As a bonus, my boyfriend has already promised to buy it for me! So that's really nice.

Yes it is!

I'm one of those people who aren't "archfan" enough to go through the HOME volumes. I like finished stories. I enjoyed the Unfinished Tales, but they are more finished than not really. I think COH is a good complement to the chapter in the Silmarillion, and I would also read this new book once it makes its way to the libraries.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

Thanks for posting this news, Mithalwen.

While I'm a little ambivalent, like Kuruharan, having bought The Children of Húrin, I probably will buy this one too.

I was interested in what you had to say about copyright, Morthoron.

I've already posted this elsewhere; but the link below gives an amusing (or worse) idea about what Peter Jackson adapting The Silmarillion might look and sound like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFMwOu8_jsE

Thanks for posting, that's hilarious!

[mark12_30]

I bought CoH in paperback. Did I enjoy it? It's so sad... Do I enjoy any tragedy?? But this is different, I think. I have read the various peices, and was always sad when they abruptly end unfinished (his poetry is SO good) and ... Well, this is about LUTHIEN TINUVIEL and Beren Erchamion... (Would I buy a book solely about Galadriel, even though it was just a reorganization? You bet.) I think I will buy this in hardcover, and relish it, and read it with my toes toward the fireplace and perhaps a drink at my elbow, in awe of the whole concept of sub-creation and myth making.

One of the greatest elves in the history of Arda...

Yes, I am excited about this book.

<3

Cheers, Professor, and cheers to your son as well. And thanks.

[IxnaY AintsaY]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

I've already posted this elsewhere; but the link below gives an amusing (or worse) idea about what Peter Jackson adapting The Silmarillion might look and sound like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFMwOu8_jsE

Brilliant.

[Mithalwen]

I don't know that I will but it as it is my least favourite story of all (I really love Finrod and he gets dedded for THEM grrr) and I have all of HoME etc -also my special edition CoH has barely left its slipcase lest I spoil its beauty by reading it -but I think there is a place for this sort of thing for those who would be daunted by HoME or just want everything on a favourite story in one place.. now if it were the fall of Gondolin...

For me, the best part of it is actually that Christopher is clearly still going on pretty well and I salute him for putting what time he has left into this kind of thing when he could have signed a few licensing agreements and spent the past 45 years basking in the sun and drinking wine...

I do think his diligence as an editor may have spoilt me for other authors... while most of my Tolkien is in store I have been reading other things including rereading other beloved books of my childhood and realise that such consistency is far from universal.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I don't know that I will but it as it is my least favourite story of all (I really love Finrod and he gets dedded for THEM grrr) and I have all of HoME etc -also my special edition CoH has barely left its slipcase lest I spoil its beauty by reading it -but I think there is a place for this sort of thing for those who would be daunted by HoME or just want everything on a favourite story in one place...

Yeah, exactly. It's not a favourite story for me, but I think there's just more to it in the HOME than in The Sil and since I still haven't gotten around to reading HOME I probably won't. I really like COH, and I think it does add more to the story than what you get in The Sil, so that's what sold it to me.

[Mithalwen]

I can understand the wanting more. Unfinished Tales is my favourite volume though of course it is rather dependent on the earlier works.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Yes it is!

I'm one of those people who aren't "archfan" enough to go through the HOME volumes. I like finished stories. I enjoyed the Unfinished Tales, but they are more finished than not really. I think COH is a good complement to the chapter in the Silmarillion, and I would also read this new book once it makes its way to the libraries.

I, too, have a hard time going through tales that aren't finished. I have some of the HoME books, but I haven't gone through them in much depth. All of the abrupt endings and story fragments really confuse me. That's one of the reasons why I don't contribute to serious discussion here about first age things -- I just can't remember which endings are canon and which aren't...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

I, too, have a hard time going through tales that aren't finished. I have some of the HoME books, but I haven't gone through them in much depth. All of the abrupt endings and story fragments really confuse me. That's one of the reasons why I don't contribute to serious discussion here about first age things -- I just can't remember which endings are canon and which aren't...

Oh no, here comes the canonicity debate again...

[Galin]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

I, too, have a hard time going through tales that aren't finished. I have some of the HoME books, but I haven't gone through them in much depth. All of the abrupt endings and story fragments really confuse me. That's one of the reasons why I don't contribute to serious discussion here about first age things -- I just can't remember which endings are canon and which aren't...

That's easy! A given ending in HOME isn't canon unless you find it in something Tolkien himself published. I didn't want to disappoint Nerwen, so there you go: defining canon is as easy as cabbage pie.

I will add however, that the Tale of Mr. Tod shows bunny-bias, so "canon" need not mean "truth" in every instance!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I have similar problems with reading HoME. I do find the evolution of the different tekst and stories fascinating, but it can be difficult to keep track of the different endings and such.

I also find the fragmented nature of such writings make them harder to read, especially after I am no longer a student, and have considerable less time to spend on reading (for fun).

[IxnaY AintsaY]

I found the headline here amusing:

Lord of the Rings Spinoff Beren and Lúthien to Be Published in 2017

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by IxnaY AintsaY

I found the headline here amusing:

Lord of the Rings Spinoff Beren and Lúthien to Be Published in 2017

Oh my goodness! This is too funny!

As far as canon is concerned, are we going to agree that the Sil and others that have been edited and published by CT are canon? Or am I in the wrong thread?

[Kuruharan]

Well, it is not even a single coherent narrative...

I will admit that also annoys me a bit.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

As far as canon is concerned, are we going to agree that the Sil and others that have been edited and published by CT are canon? Or am I in the wrong thread?

Depends upon who you mean by we, I guess

I can't agree anyway, but you probably guessed that.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galin

Depends upon who you mean by we, I guess

I can't agree anyway, but you probably guessed that.

*whimpers*

[Mithalwen]

There, there, Nerwen.... This isn't like you... I have been away too long...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Sounds like what CT did for The Children of Húrin, melding different versions of the story together. I'm still likely to buy it, just as I did CoH.

From what I underrstand, it's rather the reverse of TCOH. Whereas that one took varying texts and knitted together a single narrative- rather like the '77 Silmarillion itself - B&L, AIUI, will for the first time give the unedited texts which went into the Silmarillion, and which (in the case of the 1937 versions) CT skipped over in Vol V of HME except for a few notes.

It is, I suppose, in a way a small version of an idea I suggested to him but which he didn't like, to put out a sort of Unfinished Tales II or HME Reader which covers just the more significant narratives- the A-text of B&L, the Wanderings of Hurin and so on.

[Mithalwen]

I think what I would most like is an expanded or second volume of letters. There must be a lot of stuff omitted originally because it pertained to then unpublished material....that and whatever Tolkien fils knows about because Tolkien pere told him but hasn't been revealed because he doesn't have it on paper...

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

*whimpers*

Ahem, I'll back down. I don't mean to start a fight, now.


As for what Mith said, I don't have the first volume of letters, but I'd love to get it. Maybe since the Beren and Luthien story that's coming out is going to have notes in it, we could get some letters too in that volume?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I mean, really. Don't the PR people even read the books they're shilling?

Essential to the story, and never changed, is the fate that shadowed the love of Beren and Lúthien: for Beren was a mortal man, but Lúthien was an immortal Elf.

In the 1916-17 BOLT version, of course, Beren is an Elf.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I mean, really. Don't the PR people even read the books they're shilling?

Possibly the writer thought she was an earlier version of Arwen? If that's the case though I wonder if we'll see her on the cover in armor with a battle-axe.

[Zigûr]

A "sponsored" post just came up on my Facebook News Feed describing this forthcoming publication as a 'Lord of the Rings spinoff'.

As incorrect as that description is, what was more bizarre were the numerous comments accompanying the post, in which many people didn't realise it was a literary publication and assumed that another film was being made. It's a bit sad that some people can't conceive of the work as anything other than a film franchise now.

People are strange.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

A "sponsored" post just came up on my Facebook News Feed describing this forthcoming publication as a 'Lord of the Rings spinoff'.

As incorrect as that description is, what was more bizarre were the numerous comments accompanying the post, in which many people didn't realise it was a literary publication and assumed that another film was being made. It's a bit sad that some people can't conceive of the work as anything other than a film franchise now.

People are strange.

Not actually surprising theywould think it's a film- the term "spinoff" is very strongly associated with film and television and... actually, not at all with the written word. At least, I can't recall seeing it used in that context ever before.