What would have happened if Frodo had left when Gandalf told him? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nevfeniel · 08-22-2002, 07:05 PM

I got the idea for this topic while reading Child's topic, Frodo's initial delay in leaving the Shire: What does it mean? Anyways, what would have happened if Frodo left the Shire when Gandalf told him about how dangerous the ring was?
If someone said this somewhere else, I appologize; I'm just curious.

Arwen Imladris · 08-22-2002, 07:27 PM

Hmmm good question. Would gandalf had went with him instead of going to see Saruman? Would they have met Strider in Bree? Would they have met Tom Bombadil? Probebly not, they would have gone by the main road and not through the old forest. Would they have met the ring wraiths in the wilderness? If gandalf didn't meet Saruman, then he would not have known of his treachery. Boromir would not have made it in time for the consil if they had had it earlier. If they didn't know of Saruman's treachery, then would they have made for the gap of Rohan? O my, so many things!

Manwe Sulimo · 08-22-2002, 07:40 PM

The Fellowship would've been very different. Every person (other than the hobbits) who was originally in the Fellowship would not have been: Gandalf was imprisoned in Orthanc, Aragorn was hunting Gollum, Legolas and Gimli were in Mirkwood and Erebor, respectively. If Elrond was "hasty" and sent the new Fellowship out early, they would've been ensnared by Saruman trying to pass through the Gap of Rohan, having no warning of his treachery from Gandalf. All the Elves (and Dúnedain) of the new Fellowship would've been slaughtered, and the Ring taken by Saruman. This would have resulted in a war between Isengard and Mordor, with Rohan and Gondor destroyed in the middle. Eventually, Saruman would've won (because he had the Ring), and all the Free People of Middle-earth would've been enslaved.

Sounds like a good "what if" fanfiction.

There's an interesting essay about the timing of the Fellowship's actions relative to the War in Unfinished Tales, describing how if the Fellowship hadn't split, or had been a few days earlier or later, the forces of evil would have won the War.

08-22-2002, 08:54 PM

I personally like to think that if Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin had left the Shire earlier, Glorfindel would have led them on their quest to destroy the ring. Glorfindel, being experienced in the ways of the Witch King would have been an excellent candidate (although how could they have known that Sauron would send the nine abroad?". They would have made for the Gap of Rohan, and thus been ensnared by Saruman, as stated previously in this forum. It would have been a most treacherous story (unless of course Aragorn came to the rescue before Saruman had mastered the Ring).

08-22-2002, 09:05 PM

I would also like to add this "what if". Although all this conjecture is rather moot, I will put forth another possibility. The Company of Five (Gandalf, Glorfindel, Frodo, Merry, Pippin and Sam, as I said in my previous post), may well have been found by Theodred and his company in the Gap of Rohan. Gandalf may have, after going to Edoras and speaking to the king, gone to consult Saruman, and thus learn of his treachery. Had he escaped in the same manner (being rescued by Gwaihir Windlord), he could have gone to consult King Theoden, and thus saved the life of his son Theodred and halting Saruman before he amassed his army, the Uruk-hai. Quite a different and yet similar story. Absurd and pointless, yes, but entertaining.

steve · 08-22-2002, 10:52 PM

If the Frodo had of left the shire earlier, Frodo might not have run into merry and pippin in FarmerMaggot's fields therefor cutting them out of the fellowship. Once at Rivendel Since none of the members of the Real Fellowship would be there as said earlier there would be a completly diffrent one. And also, Gandalf would have never visited Saruman (i know all this has been said before) but as some stated about Sarumen slaughtering and capturing the one ring at the gap of Rohan, of Frodo had left earlier they would have passed the Gap of Rohan before Sarumen's army was "Born" and therefor they would have made it to Helmsdeep or even as far as to <3Edoras<3 before Saruman would of had enough soldiers to capture them. So therefor with Gandlaf still in the fellowship he would eventuially find out about the corrpution in Isengard and if he gets out by the eagles or weither by some toher means he would and could warn Theoden therefor being prepaired for the assault from Isengard on helmsdeep and being able to press on into Isengard and capturing and killing Saruman therefor cutting one of sauron's main allys. That would make it even harder for Sauron to take on all of middle earth with just the forces in Mordor and without the one ring. And that would bring forth the ability for all the forces in middle earth to more or less invade Mordor and destroy Barad-dur and end destroy the ring without frodo ever having to really do anything

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: steve ]

Dwarin Thunderhammer · 08-22-2002, 11:26 PM

First of all, I think that we are overlooking the point that Gandalf had advised Frodo against leaving suddenly. Frodo left in such a manner that he called no uneeded attention. It was a ruse, and it worked. Frodo was able to leave the Shire relatively unnoticed. Since Gandalf was present at the time he told Frodo of the dangers of the ring it is safe to assume that he would have led Frodo and Same safely to rivendell. From there I'm sure Elrond would've waited for the arrival of the rest of the council Legolas, the Dwarves, Boromir, etc. From there the council would have sent the fellowship with the notable exception of Merry and Pippin. Without merry and Pippin stirring up the ents the riders of rohan would've taken much greater casualties at Helm's deep, and possibly the taking of Orthanc. Without Pippin touching the palantir, Gandalf would have not ridden to Minas Tirith with pippin. Pippin would not have been there to save Faramir from the madness of his father. Faramir would have died and Minas Tirith would have been leaderless for a time. Merry would not have been there to kill the witchking, so eowyn would have been killed. Though I'm sure Gandalf or Aragorn would've taken the old bat down. The battle of Pellnor Field would have very few survivors due to the thinned ranks of Rohan. Sam and Frodo's mission would have been relatively unnaffected except for the end wich would've been alot harder due to the smaller/no battle at all at the black gates to distract Sauron.

The second scenario would be that Gandalf did not leave with Frodo immediately after he tells him of the danger. Sam and Frodo would have left the Shire but I'm sure they couldn't hide their dissaperience from a certian mischevious Took and a curious Brandybuck. Merry and Pippin would have left the Shire with them. They would most likely have met up with Aragorn or Gandalf at the prancing pony. From there the quest would have continued as in the books with maybe the exception of time more spent in Rivendell for the above mentioned reasons.

Dwarin Thunderhammer

P.s. Steve, that only happened in the movie. The books are quite diffferent.

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Dwarin Thunderhammer ]

O'Boile · 08-23-2002, 07:10 AM

Steve, Frodo did not run into Merry and Pippin 'stealing farmer Maggot's crops'. Pippin left with them in Hobbiton, and Merry met up with them in Buckland I believe. This is the books forum.
Second, I think Aragorn would still probably have met up with them. He had found Gollum several months before Gandalf even goes to Isengard (before he tells Frodo about the ring), so he still would have been in the area. Gandalf even mentions this in the note that he sends to Frodo (but never gets delivered) that note was written on the asumption that Frodo would leave immediately, so Gandalf must have assumed that Aragorn would be around.

steve · 08-23-2002, 05:33 PM

Im sry, its been a wile since I read Fotr, and iv seen the movie umteen times so I gettem onfused sometimes, I am very sry and I apolagise to the fell extent that I can about making this groutesque error, and still Aragorn being there wouldnt change much

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: steve ]

08-22-2002, 07:05 PM	#1
Nevfeniel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mithlond Posts: 783	What would have happened if Frodo had left when Gandalf told him? I got the idea for this topic while reading Child's topic, Frodo's initial delay in leaving the Shire: What does it mean? Anyways, what would have happened if Frodo left the Shire when Gandalf told him about how dangerous the ring was? If someone said this somewhere else, I appologize; I'm just curious. __________________ Consider the purr a variety of audible tranquilizer. [. . .] For a few of us, there is one more purr, a secret purr. When we combine our secret purrs, we produce the Purr of Power. And that is simply the amplified amity we feel as furred and purred beings.

08-22-2002, 07:27 PM	#2
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Hmmm good question. Would gandalf had went with him instead of going to see Saruman? Would they have met Strider in Bree? Would they have met Tom Bombadil? Probebly not, they would have gone by the main road and not through the old forest. Would they have met the ring wraiths in the wilderness? If gandalf didn't meet Saruman, then he would not have known of his treachery. Boromir would not have made it in time for the consil if they had had it earlier. If they didn't know of Saruman's treachery, then would they have made for the gap of Rohan? O my, so many things! __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

08-22-2002, 07:40 PM	#3
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	The Fellowship would've been very different. Every person (other than the hobbits) who was originally in the Fellowship would not have been: Gandalf was imprisoned in Orthanc, Aragorn was hunting Gollum, Legolas and Gimli were in Mirkwood and Erebor, respectively. If Elrond was "hasty" and sent the new Fellowship out early, they would've been ensnared by Saruman trying to pass through the Gap of Rohan, having no warning of his treachery from Gandalf. All the Elves (and Dúnedain) of the new Fellowship would've been slaughtered, and the Ring taken by Saruman. This would have resulted in a war between Isengard and Mordor, with Rohan and Gondor destroyed in the middle. Eventually, Saruman would've won (because he had the Ring), and all the Free People of Middle-earth would've been enslaved. Sounds like a good "what if" fanfiction. There's an interesting essay about the timing of the Fellowship's actions relative to the War in Unfinished Tales, describing how if the Fellowship hadn't split, or had been a few days earlier or later, the forces of evil would have won the War. __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

08-22-2002, 10:52 PM	#6
steve Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edoras... er, Philadelphia Posts: 191	If the Frodo had of left the shire earlier, Frodo might not have run into merry and pippin in FarmerMaggot's fields therefor cutting them out of the fellowship. Once at Rivendel Since none of the members of the Real Fellowship would be there as said earlier there would be a completly diffrent one. And also, Gandalf would have never visited Saruman (i know all this has been said before) but as some stated about Sarumen slaughtering and capturing the one ring at the gap of Rohan, of Frodo had left earlier they would have passed the Gap of Rohan before Sarumen's army was "Born" and therefor they would have made it to Helmsdeep or even as far as to <3Edoras<3 before Saruman would of had enough soldiers to capture them. So therefor with Gandlaf still in the fellowship he would eventuially find out about the corrpution in Isengard and if he gets out by the eagles or weither by some toher means he would and could warn Theoden therefor being prepaired for the assault from Isengard on helmsdeep and being able to press on into Isengard and capturing and killing Saruman therefor cutting one of sauron's main allys. That would make it even harder for Sauron to take on all of middle earth with just the forces in Mordor and without the one ring. And that would bring forth the ability for all the forces in middle earth to more or less invade Mordor and destroy Barad-dur and end destroy the ring without frodo ever having to really do anything [ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: steve ] __________________ MAGIC SHOP! Spells of Mass Destruction 20% off! Today Only!

08-22-2002, 11:26 PM	#7
Dwarin Thunderhammer Khazad-Doomed Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: The Green Dragon Posts: 182	First of all, I think that we are overlooking the point that Gandalf had advised Frodo against leaving suddenly. Frodo left in such a manner that he called no uneeded attention. It was a ruse, and it worked. Frodo was able to leave the Shire relatively unnoticed. Since Gandalf was present at the time he told Frodo of the dangers of the ring it is safe to assume that he would have led Frodo and Same safely to rivendell. From there I'm sure Elrond would've waited for the arrival of the rest of the council Legolas, the Dwarves, Boromir, etc. From there the council would have sent the fellowship with the notable exception of Merry and Pippin. Without merry and Pippin stirring up the ents the riders of rohan would've taken much greater casualties at Helm's deep, and possibly the taking of Orthanc. Without Pippin touching the palantir, Gandalf would have not ridden to Minas Tirith with pippin. Pippin would not have been there to save Faramir from the madness of his father. Faramir would have died and Minas Tirith would have been leaderless for a time. Merry would not have been there to kill the witchking, so eowyn would have been killed. Though I'm sure Gandalf or Aragorn would've taken the old bat down. The battle of Pellnor Field would have very few survivors due to the thinned ranks of Rohan. Sam and Frodo's mission would have been relatively unnaffected except for the end wich would've been alot harder due to the smaller/no battle at all at the black gates to distract Sauron. The second scenario would be that Gandalf did not leave with Frodo immediately after he tells him of the danger. Sam and Frodo would have left the Shire but I'm sure they couldn't hide their dissaperience from a certian mischevious Took and a curious Brandybuck. Merry and Pippin would have left the Shire with them. They would most likely have met up with Aragorn or Gandalf at the prancing pony. From there the quest would have continued as in the books with maybe the exception of time more spent in Rivendell for the above mentioned reasons. Dwarin Thunderhammer P.s. Steve, that only happened in the movie. The books are quite diffferent. [ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Dwarin Thunderhammer ] __________________ “Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd aimênu!” Come visit The Rohan RPG! The only RPG to fanfic on the downs! Without law there can be no freedom. Without justice there can be no law.

08-22-2002, 08:54 PM	#4
nict322 Guest Posts: n/a	I personally like to think that if Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin had left the Shire earlier, Glorfindel would have led them on their quest to destroy the ring. Glorfindel, being experienced in the ways of the Witch King would have been an excellent candidate (although how could they have known that Sauron would send the nine abroad?". They would have made for the Gap of Rohan, and thus been ensnared by Saruman, as stated previously in this forum. It would have been a most treacherous story (unless of course Aragorn came to the rescue before Saruman had mastered the Ring).

08-22-2002, 09:05 PM	#5
nict322 Guest Posts: n/a	I would also like to add this "what if". Although all this conjecture is rather moot, I will put forth another possibility. The Company of Five (Gandalf, Glorfindel, Frodo, Merry, Pippin and Sam, as I said in my previous post), may well have been found by Theodred and his company in the Gap of Rohan. Gandalf may have, after going to Edoras and speaking to the king, gone to consult Saruman, and thus learn of his treachery. Had he escaped in the same manner (being rescued by Gwaihir Windlord), he could have gone to consult King Theoden, and thus saved the life of his son Theodred and halting Saruman before he amassed his army, the Uruk-hai. Quite a different and yet similar story. Absurd and pointless, yes, but entertaining.

08-23-2002, 07:10 AM	#8
O'Boile Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 117	Steve, Frodo did not run into Merry and Pippin 'stealing farmer Maggot's crops'. Pippin left with them in Hobbiton, and Merry met up with them in Buckland I believe. This is the books forum. Second, I think Aragorn would still probably have met up with them. He had found Gollum several months before Gandalf even goes to Isengard (before he tells Frodo about the ring), so he still would have been in the area. Gandalf even mentions this in the note that he sends to Frodo (but never gets delivered) that note was written on the asumption that Frodo would leave immediately, so Gandalf must have assumed that Aragorn would be around.

08-23-2002, 05:33 PM	#9
steve Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edoras... er, Philadelphia Posts: 191	Im sry, its been a wile since I read Fotr, and iv seen the movie umteen times so I gettem onfused sometimes, I am very sry and I apolagise to the fell extent that I can about making this groutesque error, and still Aragorn being there wouldnt change much [ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: steve ] __________________ MAGIC SHOP! Spells of Mass Destruction 20% off! Today Only!