Smaug the Golden - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Keeper of Dol Guldur · 02-18-2002, 09:09 AM

I was just wondering, if when Bilbo had the ring on, why didn't Smaug have a spiritual form. Elves have them, ringwraithes, probably Gandalf and Sauron, why not Smaug?

Niphredil Baggins · 02-19-2002, 11:05 AM

Well, maybe Tolkien hadn't thought of anything so complicated back when he wrote the hobbit. But if you want a more complicated ME explanation, lets say:

Who has proven 'spiritual form'?
- Glorfindel, a great elven lord
- Nazguls, wraiths of mortal men

They both are connected to the ring, Glorfindel because he is a Noldo. Smaug is not connected to the ring in any ways.

Kuruharan · 02-19-2002, 06:33 PM

Maybe his spiritual form looked exactly the same as his physical form. His physical form looked pretty overpowering itself. It's hard to imagine how his spiritual form would be different or improved in his spirit form.

But I suspect that N. Baggins is correct. Smaug had nothing to do with the Ring and your perception of him would not be altered by wearing it.

Bilbo had also not had the Ring for a long time yet.

[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]

Elven-Maiden · 02-19-2002, 09:12 PM

I wonder if the Ring wasn't as powerful back then.... All through the Hobbit I honeslty thought the ring was cool. I wanted one! After reading LotR, I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole, unless someone asked me to chuck it into Mt. Doom, then I might reconsider....

Sorry-I got sidetracked. Like I was saying, nowhere in the Hobbit did the ring seems to be as evil, and Bilbo had it on for days at a time (the elven-king's halls). I think that since Sauron wasn't as powerful yet, the Ring was still trying to check out his new bearer, and not allow itself to be destroyed before Sauron had the power to rescue it. *shivers* Yikes, that's creepy!

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 02-20-2002, 07:45 AM

Quote:

I wonder if the Ring wasn't as powerful back then.... All through the Hobbit I honeslty thought the ring was cool.

When Tolkien was writing The Hobbit, it wasn't yet the Ruling Ring in his mind. Only after publication did Hobbits and Bilbo's ring make it into his larger mythos, through his "branching acquisitive" approach to fiction (note the oblique reference to this in Leaf by Niggle). This will explain any discrepancies there may be between its role and treatment in the two books.
Of course the (almost certainly unintentional) result of these discrepancies is to make the reader see the Ring as Bilbo would have seen it throughout the story of his adventure, but as Frodo saw it in his.

Inziladun · 02-20-2002, 10:26 AM

Quote:

I wonder if the Ring wasn't as powerful back then.

The Ring was certainly not as powerful when found by Bilbo as it is when LoTR begins. I would think it gained power and potency as its master did. It would have been much more powerful (and dangerous) after Sauron returned to Mordor and declared himself openly, than while he was relatively dormant in Dol Guldur.

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 02-20-2002, 11:20 AM

Well, there is that too.

02-18-2002, 09:09 AM	#1
Keeper of Dol Guldur Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 315, CNY Boys and girls. Posts: 405	Smaug the Golden I was just wondering, if when Bilbo had the ring on, why didn't Smaug have a spiritual form. Elves have them, ringwraithes, probably Gandalf and Sauron, why not Smaug? __________________ "I come from yonder...Have you seen Baggins? Baggins has left, he is coming. He is not far away. I wish to find him. If he passes will you tell me? I will come back with gold." - Khamul the Easterling

02-19-2002, 11:05 AM	#2
Niphredil Baggins Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 118	Well, maybe Tolkien hadn't thought of anything so complicated back when he wrote the hobbit. But if you want a more complicated ME explanation, lets say: Who has proven 'spiritual form'? - Glorfindel, a great elven lord - Nazguls, wraiths of mortal men They both are connected to the ring, Glorfindel because he is a Noldo. Smaug is not connected to the ring in any ways. __________________ Wistful, willful, wingless, fly!

02-19-2002, 06:33 PM	#3
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,589	Maybe his spiritual form looked exactly the same as his physical form. His physical form looked pretty overpowering itself. It's hard to imagine how his spiritual form would be different or improved in his spirit form. But I suspect that N. Baggins is correct. Smaug had nothing to do with the Ring and your perception of him would not be altered by wearing it. Bilbo had also not had the Ring for a long time yet. [ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ] __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

02-19-2002, 09:12 PM	#4
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	I wonder if the Ring wasn't as powerful back then.... All through the Hobbit I honeslty thought the ring was cool. I wanted one! After reading LotR, I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole, unless someone asked me to chuck it into Mt. Doom, then I might reconsider.... Sorry-I got sidetracked. Like I was saying, nowhere in the Hobbit did the ring seems to be as evil, and Bilbo had it on for days at a time (the elven-king's halls). I think that since Sauron wasn't as powerful yet, the Ring was still trying to check out his new bearer, and not allow itself to be destroyed before Sauron had the power to rescue it. shivers Yikes, that's creepy! __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

02-20-2002, 11:20 AM	#7
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,178	Well, there is that too. __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?