themes in the hobbit...help!! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ithildin · 01-29-2003, 11:45 AM

can anyone tell me what is/are the theme(s)
in The Hobbit? I am writing a book review and I'm having difficulties concerning the theme..
help me, mellyn [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

Arwen Imladris · 01-29-2003, 01:00 PM

Well, there is the theme that little people can do big things. Bilbo, a little hobbit from this place in the middle of nowhere gets forced to go on a hopeless journey, finds a magical ring and saves the rest of his company sevral times. There is also the theme that you have to follow intructions. When they were going through Mirkwood, if they had not touched the water and had stayed on the path, they could have avoided all kinds of trouble. That is all I can think of for now. Anyone else?

hobbit punk · 01-29-2003, 01:04 PM

Have you read the hobbit? I would say one of the most glaringly obvious themes is never to underestimate the little guy. Literally [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] And that sometimes things are better solved through quickness of mind and not just of sword(although quickness of sword certainly helps). In some situations, such as Bilbo and the dwarves escape from the wood elves, Bilbo had to rely on his ability to see an opportunity and seize it when he had the chance. Also, the ring's invisibility powers helped [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] There was no way he could have fought his way out of there, he had to come up with a plan. These are a few of the the simplist ones that should do well on a book report if you elaborate a bit. Hope this was helpful.

Galadrie1 · 01-29-2003, 02:34 PM

There's always the theme of pockets. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Liriodendron · 01-29-2003, 02:45 PM

I pick up the theme that great deeds are difficult. Bilbo and company struggle from one hair raising adventure to another, and still have to deal with the dragon! Adventures are not holidays. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Tar-Palantir · 01-29-2003, 03:24 PM

The main theme for me is to use what strengths are given to you. Bilbo used his strengths to their fullest advantage and so in the end was able to do much good.

Another big one is having faith - that when need comes opportunity will present itself. You cannot plan for the finding of rings, for running into Beorn, for Bard being able to shoot down Smaug with his last arrow. These just arise when you put yourself into the fray. They don't happen if you are too scared and stay in Bag End with your tea and cakes.

InklingElf · 02-01-2003, 12:55 AM

Here's my 2cents

Themes:

Bilbo's Heroism - The Hobbit's main theme is Bilbo's development into a hero, which more broadly represents the development of a common person into a hero. At the beginning of the story, Bilbo is timid, comfortable, and complacent in his secure little hole at Bag End. When Gandalf musters him into embarking on the quest with Thorin's dwarves, Bilbo becomes so frightened that he faints. But as the novel progresses, Bilbo prevails in the face of danger and adversity, justifying Gandalf's early claim that there is more to the little hobbit than meets the eye.

Bilbo possesses hidden reserves of inner strength that even Bilbo himself cannot perceive when he firsts sets out on the quest. Confronting the trolls, escaping with Gollum's ring, slaying the spider, rescuing the dwarves in Mirkwood, and speaking face-to-face with the great dragon Smaug all provide Bilbo with opportunities to test his resolve. As he builds confidence and resourcefulness, Bilbo emerges as a true hero.

Because Tolkien acknowledged that the idea of hobbits was rooted in his experiences with rural Englishmen of his own time, Bilbo's development might allegorically represent the heroism of England in World War I or the inner, latent heroism common to everyone. But given Tolkien's stated distaste for allegory—his main motivation for writing was storytelling, not the exploration of a literary theme—it is questionable whether Bilbo's story should be taken to refer to anyone except Bilbo himself.

doug*platypus · 02-01-2003, 04:14 AM

Goodie, another homework thread. Where were these things when I was at school??

I kick myself every time I think of it, but I have read a brilliant analysis of The Hobbit, the title and author of which I can't remember. I know exactly which bookshelf, level and library it is in, but that is 500 km away! Among the many gems, it took the various adventures in which the heroes take place and compares them.

For example, all of them involve being underground, or out of the light, a common theme in myths as well (apparently). In the Trolls' sacks, in the Goblin City, in the Elvenking's halls, in the Lonely Mountain.

Also, the means by which they are saved generally involve water. The Long Lake that quenches Smaug, the famous barrel ride, and being dropped on the Carrock in the middle of Anduing are examples. Crossing the Ford of Bruinen could be construed as another one, as arriving at Rivendell places them out of all danger for a while.

I believe there's lots of mini-themes you can draw from the book, as well. The Eagles, and Beorn as well, are fearsome creatures, but are still on the side of Gandalf. Peoples' appearances can be deceiving.

A more obvious one is the fate of the greedy, such as Thorin. In his lust for treasure and power, he drives away all possible friends or allies (even Bilbo), apart from other dwarves. So perhaps on a larger scale, dwarves represent greedy people (forgive me if you already knew this, I just thought of it then!). Thorin does repent before the end, but is (of course) slain. The wages of sin is death, as Thorin, Isildur, Fëanor, Boromir and Gollum (among many, many others) show us throughout Tolkien's works.

Elves in The Hobbit, as everywhere else, represent the higher parts of human nature. Thranduil is possibly the most reasonable person in the book, and seems like a pretty good guy, apart from his resentment towards dwarves. So the fact that there are elves out there (Elrond included) in the world should be a source of hope for us.

Bard is like a poor man's Aragorn. He has noble blood which has been hidden for ages, but first earns his position as king through his bravery and his strength, one damn good arrow and a little bird. All that is gold does not glitter.

Smaug shows the folly of pride, mostly when Bilbo tricks him into revealing his weak spot by flattery. You could also draw from this a moral about not listening to flatterers - very Aesop (I can't remember which one, though!).

In their two appearances the Eagles, like they always do, make present Tolkien's belief that somewhere there is a higher authority watching over events. The Eagles work the will of Manwë, and therefore Ilúvatar, showing up much like the Millennium Falcon (hey, weird!) when all seems hopeless.

Just a children's book?? Yeah, right.

the guy who be short · 02-01-2003, 11:03 AM

i actually think there wasnt meant to be a theme to the hobbit. all those listed are probably just coincidences.
the hobbit, i am sure, was meant to be a prelude to the lord of the rings, with all the deep and meaningful issues in there

Estelyn Telcontar · 02-01-2003, 11:10 AM

Actually, the guy who be short, when Tolkien wrote 'The Hobbit', he had no idea that there would ever be a book called 'The Lord of the Rings'. It was only after 'The Hobbit' was so successful that he was asked to write more about hobbits and decided to combine them with his mythology of the 'Silmarillion', which he had been writing for years.

Therefore, 'The Hobbit' was written with no thought of any other books and its themes are all its own.

**The Saucepan Man** · 02-01-2003, 12:50 PM

Seems to me InklingElf is spot on with the main theme. The development of the "common man" to hero, through a series of trials. Of course, JRRT intended no allegory, but this is a common theme running through most mythical tales. It was just that JRRT told it well as a children's story. And therein lies much of his skill: to use take the archetypal hero myth and make it into a jolly enjoyable story.

Angry Hill Troll · 02-01-2003, 05:32 PM

There is a section in Unfinished Tales called "The Quest of Erebor" which Tolkien wrote much later (after LOTR) from Gandalf's point of view. It discusses a number of what Tolkien saw as themes, including some mentioned in this thread (don't underestimate hobbits!)

InklingElf · 02-02-2003, 01:34 AM

Alright, 2 more cents:

Major Themes

The Hobbit is notable in that it possesses three main themes that
parallel each other. The most easily observed theme is the age-old
battle between good and evil. This theme is highlighted in the
episodes where Gandalf, the dwarves, and Bilbo fight against the
trolls, goblins, and other enemies. The conflict comes to a finale
with the Battle of Five Armies, where good wins and evil is
defeated.

A secondary theme is that of the effects of greed and the corrupting
power of wealth. This is seen in the reactions of various characters
in the book to treasure, especially the dwarves, whose gold-lust
almost destroys them.

A final theme is that of the quest. This theme has two strands. The
first is the rather straightforward, though still problematic, quest of
the dwarves to regain their stolen treasure. The second is the quest
of Bilbo Baggins to discover himself and grow into a heroic figure.
His journey of self-discovery and growth makes The Hobbit far
more than a mere adventure story.

But agree more on my first post.

Ithildin I hope this helps you on your book review [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

01-29-2003, 11:45 AM	#1
Ithildin Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 11	themes in the hobbit...help!! can anyone tell me what is/are the theme(s) in The Hobbit? I am writing a book review and I'm having difficulties concerning the theme.. help me, mellyn [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

01-29-2003, 01:00 PM	#2
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Well, there is the theme that little people can do big things. Bilbo, a little hobbit from this place in the middle of nowhere gets forced to go on a hopeless journey, finds a magical ring and saves the rest of his company sevral times. There is also the theme that you have to follow intructions. When they were going through Mirkwood, if they had not touched the water and had stayed on the path, they could have avoided all kinds of trouble. That is all I can think of for now. Anyone else? __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

01-29-2003, 01:04 PM	#3
hobbit punk Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 86	Have you read the hobbit? I would say one of the most glaringly obvious themes is never to underestimate the little guy. Literally [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] And that sometimes things are better solved through quickness of mind and not just of sword(although quickness of sword certainly helps). In some situations, such as Bilbo and the dwarves escape from the wood elves, Bilbo had to rely on his ability to see an opportunity and seize it when he had the chance. Also, the ring's invisibility powers helped [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] There was no way he could have fought his way out of there, he had to come up with a plan. These are a few of the the simplist ones that should do well on a book report if you elaborate a bit. Hope this was helpful. __________________ "The alphabet does not go "A B C D What? When? How? but it does go "V W X Why? Z." -Douglas Adams

01-29-2003, 02:34 PM	#4
Galadrie1 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The wrong place at the wrong time. Posts: 385	There's always the theme of pockets. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "For this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy. But this, if you will, is the magic of Galadriel."

01-29-2003, 02:45 PM	#5
Liriodendron Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 527	I pick up the theme that great deeds are difficult. Bilbo and company struggle from one hair raising adventure to another, and still have to deal with the dragon! Adventures are not holidays. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ http://www.lizmargason.com

01-29-2003, 03:24 PM	#6
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	The main theme for me is to use what strengths are given to you. Bilbo used his strengths to their fullest advantage and so in the end was able to do much good. Another big one is having faith - that when need comes opportunity will present itself. You cannot plan for the finding of rings, for running into Beorn, for Bard being able to shoot down Smaug with his last arrow. These just arise when you put yourself into the fray. They don't happen if you are too scared and stay in Bag End with your tea and cakes. __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

02-01-2003, 12:55 AM	#7
InklingElf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 402	Here's my 2cents Themes: Bilbo's Heroism - The Hobbit's main theme is Bilbo's development into a hero, which more broadly represents the development of a common person into a hero. At the beginning of the story, Bilbo is timid, comfortable, and complacent in his secure little hole at Bag End. When Gandalf musters him into embarking on the quest with Thorin's dwarves, Bilbo becomes so frightened that he faints. But as the novel progresses, Bilbo prevails in the face of danger and adversity, justifying Gandalf's early claim that there is more to the little hobbit than meets the eye. Bilbo possesses hidden reserves of inner strength that even Bilbo himself cannot perceive when he firsts sets out on the quest. Confronting the trolls, escaping with Gollum's ring, slaying the spider, rescuing the dwarves in Mirkwood, and speaking face-to-face with the great dragon Smaug all provide Bilbo with opportunities to test his resolve. As he builds confidence and resourcefulness, Bilbo emerges as a true hero. Because Tolkien acknowledged that the idea of hobbits was rooted in his experiences with rural Englishmen of his own time, Bilbo's development might allegorically represent the heroism of England in World War I or the inner, latent heroism common to everyone. But given Tolkien's stated distaste for allegory—his main motivation for writing was storytelling, not the exploration of a literary theme—it is questionable whether Bilbo's story should be taken to refer to anyone except Bilbo himself.

02-01-2003, 04:14 AM	#8
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	Goodie, another homework thread. Where were these things when I was at school?? I kick myself every time I think of it, but I have read a brilliant analysis of The Hobbit, the title and author of which I can't remember. I know exactly which bookshelf, level and library it is in, but that is 500 km away! Among the many gems, it took the various adventures in which the heroes take place and compares them. For example, all of them involve being underground, or out of the light, a common theme in myths as well (apparently). In the Trolls' sacks, in the Goblin City, in the Elvenking's halls, in the Lonely Mountain. Also, the means by which they are saved generally involve water. The Long Lake that quenches Smaug, the famous barrel ride, and being dropped on the Carrock in the middle of Anduing are examples. Crossing the Ford of Bruinen could be construed as another one, as arriving at Rivendell places them out of all danger for a while. I believe there's lots of mini-themes you can draw from the book, as well. The Eagles, and Beorn as well, are fearsome creatures, but are still on the side of Gandalf. Peoples' appearances can be deceiving. A more obvious one is the fate of the greedy, such as Thorin. In his lust for treasure and power, he drives away all possible friends or allies (even Bilbo), apart from other dwarves. So perhaps on a larger scale, dwarves represent greedy people (forgive me if you already knew this, I just thought of it then!). Thorin does repent before the end, but is (of course) slain. The wages of sin is death, as Thorin, Isildur, Fëanor, Boromir and Gollum (among many, many others) show us throughout Tolkien's works. Elves in The Hobbit, as everywhere else, represent the higher parts of human nature. Thranduil is possibly the most reasonable person in the book, and seems like a pretty good guy, apart from his resentment towards dwarves. So the fact that there are elves out there (Elrond included) in the world should be a source of hope for us. Bard is like a poor man's Aragorn. He has noble blood which has been hidden for ages, but first earns his position as king through his bravery and his strength, one damn good arrow and a little bird. All that is gold does not glitter. Smaug shows the folly of pride, mostly when Bilbo tricks him into revealing his weak spot by flattery. You could also draw from this a moral about not listening to flatterers - very Aesop (I can't remember which one, though!). In their two appearances the Eagles, like they always do, make present Tolkien's belief that somewhere there is a higher authority watching over events. The Eagles work the will of Manwë, and therefore Ilúvatar, showing up much like the Millennium Falcon (hey, weird!) when all seems hopeless. Just a children's book?? Yeah, right. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

02-01-2003, 11:03 AM	#9
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	i actually think there wasnt meant to be a theme to the hobbit. all those listed are probably just coincidences. the hobbit, i am sure, was meant to be a prelude to the lord of the rings, with all the deep and meaningful issues in there

02-01-2003, 11:10 AM	#10
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Actually, the guy who be short, when Tolkien wrote 'The Hobbit', he had no idea that there would ever be a book called 'The Lord of the Rings'. It was only after 'The Hobbit' was so successful that he was asked to write more about hobbits and decided to combine them with his mythology of the 'Silmarillion', which he had been writing for years. Therefore, 'The Hobbit' was written with no thought of any other books and its themes are all its own. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

02-01-2003, 12:50 PM	#11
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Seems to me InklingElf is spot on with the main theme. The development of the "common man" to hero, through a series of trials. Of course, JRRT intended no allegory, but this is a common theme running through most mythical tales. It was just that JRRT told it well as a children's story. And therein lies much of his skill: to use take the archetypal hero myth and make it into a jolly enjoyable story. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

02-01-2003, 05:32 PM	#12
Angry Hill Troll Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ephel Duath Posts: 115	There is a section in Unfinished Tales called "The Quest of Erebor" which Tolkien wrote much later (after LOTR) from Gandalf's point of view. It discusses a number of what Tolkien saw as themes, including some mentioned in this thread (don't underestimate hobbits!)

02-02-2003, 01:34 AM	#13
InklingElf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 402	Alright, 2 more cents: Major Themes The Hobbit is notable in that it possesses three main themes that parallel each other. The most easily observed theme is the age-old battle between good and evil. This theme is highlighted in the episodes where Gandalf, the dwarves, and Bilbo fight against the trolls, goblins, and other enemies. The conflict comes to a finale with the Battle of Five Armies, where good wins and evil is defeated. A secondary theme is that of the effects of greed and the corrupting power of wealth. This is seen in the reactions of various characters in the book to treasure, especially the dwarves, whose gold-lust almost destroys them. A final theme is that of the quest. This theme has two strands. The first is the rather straightforward, though still problematic, quest of the dwarves to regain their stolen treasure. The second is the quest of Bilbo Baggins to discover himself and grow into a heroic figure. His journey of self-discovery and growth makes The Hobbit far more than a mere adventure story. But agree more on my first post. Ithildin I hope this helps you on your book review [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]