Orcs , more important than we think? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

engwaalphiel · 01-26-2003, 01:36 PM

While looking over TTT i realised how important the orcs actually are. For example my question here is What would have happened if
Sauron's orcs prevailed and they had taken Merry and Pippin back to Mordor?
The plan had been successful and Saruman got hold of them ?

As there were many arguments among the orcs themselves these could all have gone one way or the other with either of the three parties there taking hold.

Has anyone else ever wondered what would have happened in the different scenarios that could have occured?

Manwe Sulimo · 01-26-2003, 04:14 PM

Probably.

What would've happened if Morgoth altered the Elves into Orcs? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Eru · 01-26-2003, 05:06 PM

Quote:

What would have happened if
Sauron's orcs prevailed and they had taken Merry and Pippin back to Mordor?

i think it was saruman who planned the expedition to begin with. if saruman hadn't planned it, the orcs of mordor wouldn't have been there (most likely). so, there you go.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-26-2003, 05:37 PM

If either Sauron's or Saruman's orcs had succeeded in getting Merry and Pippin to their respective masters, the two poor Hobbits, not having the Ring, would probably have been tortured for information and then killed.

And then, in all likelihood, the Huorns wouldn't have turned up at Helm's Deep, the Ents wouldn't have attacked Isengard, Aragorn wouldn't have been able to reveal himself using the Palantir of Orthanc, the Witch King wouldn't have been killed, Faramir would have died with his father ... and so on.

So, on the whole it was probably a pretty good thing that the orcs quarreled ampngst themselves and were then overrun by Eomer and his men.

Other than their existence as general bad guys, one of the most important abilities of orcs was their ability to quarrel in any given situation. This faciliated Merry and Pippin's escape and probably saved them from being unwittingly killed by Eomer and co. It also assisted Frodo and Sam in getting into Mordor through Cirith Ungol.

Perhaps if Sauron had made the orcs more agreeable chaps ... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Diamond18 · 01-26-2003, 05:59 PM

Quote:

If either Sauron's or Saruman's orcs had succeeded in getting Merry and Pippin to their respective masters, the two poor Hobbits, not having the Ring, would probably have been tortured for information and then killed.

And then wouldn't Gandalf have felt bad about calling Pippin names!

Of course, it is a rather moot point, because why would Tolkien have written it that way? In a book like LotR, with all the interweaving subplots, if you change one thing, the rest doesn't work out the same. That's a nice thing about his stories: everything matters.

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 01-26-2003, 11:46 PM

Importance?

How do you mean?

01-26-2003, 01:36 PM	#1
engwaalphiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The edge of nowhere Posts: 89	Orcs , more important than we think? While looking over TTT i realised how important the orcs actually are. For example my question here is What would have happened if Sauron's orcs prevailed and they had taken Merry and Pippin back to Mordor? The plan had been successful and Saruman got hold of them ? As there were many arguments among the orcs themselves these could all have gone one way or the other with either of the three parties there taking hold. Has anyone else ever wondered what would have happened in the different scenarios that could have occured? __________________ Estel............. Some have it more than others. "Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë!

01-26-2003, 04:14 PM	#2
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Probably. What would've happened if Morgoth altered the Elves into Orcs? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

01-26-2003, 05:37 PM	#4
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	If either Sauron's or Saruman's orcs had succeeded in getting Merry and Pippin to their respective masters, the two poor Hobbits, not having the Ring, would probably have been tortured for information and then killed. And then, in all likelihood, the Huorns wouldn't have turned up at Helm's Deep, the Ents wouldn't have attacked Isengard, Aragorn wouldn't have been able to reveal himself using the Palantir of Orthanc, the Witch King wouldn't have been killed, Faramir would have died with his father ... and so on. So, on the whole it was probably a pretty good thing that the orcs quarreled ampngst themselves and were then overrun by Eomer and his men. Other than their existence as general bad guys, one of the most important abilities of orcs was their ability to quarrel in any given situation. This faciliated Merry and Pippin's escape and probably saved them from being unwittingly killed by Eomer and co. It also assisted Frodo and Sam in getting into Mordor through Cirith Ungol. Perhaps if Sauron had made the orcs more agreeable chaps ... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

01-26-2003, 11:46 PM	#6
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 573	Importance? How do you mean? __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie