Gollum's boat?? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Túrin Turambar · 03-13-2003, 08:54 AM

How could Gollum have a boat while he lived in a cave? and where did he get it from?

burrahobbit · 03-13-2003, 04:07 PM

Have you ever seen a ship in a bottle? Man, those things are crazy.

Isilmëiel · 03-13-2003, 04:28 PM

An old shield of an orc or someone an orc killed?
And yes, those ships in the bottles are insane...how do they do it?

Meoshi · 03-13-2003, 04:30 PM

Folding ships.

And if a river(or even a small stream) flowed into the cave, it would bring driftwood.

Pukel-Man · 03-13-2003, 11:19 PM

Since Smeagol originally dwelt on the banks of the Great River before he was corrupted by the ring, it is probable that he became learned in the skills of boat-making. It would not be hard for him to use bone, skin and sinew to construct a small boat.

Gorwingel · 03-14-2003, 12:18 AM

He lived there in that cave for about 500 years, he had a lot of time on his hands. When he was not spending time with his Precious, he probably got board. So he decided to do something constructive. Thus building a boat. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ]

lathspell · 03-14-2003, 02:22 PM

The boat probably lay there already for the Orcs uses, maybe for if they needed to get across the lake in haste. I think I recall in the Hobbit that the entrance where Bilbo came to the lake wasn't the only entrance to the lake. So, maybe the Orcs used the lake as a shortcut.

Findegil · 03-15-2003, 04:44 PM

No, it was quiet the other way around: The goblin-tunnel bilbo used was a dead-end since the goblins stopped tunneling when they reached the lake.
But I find it very probable that Golum found the boot there, left by the Goblins that had once explored the lake before they decieded to stop the tunneling this way.

Respectfully
Findegil

Aragost · 03-15-2003, 05:07 PM

I think Pukel-Man is right, Gollum could have easily put together a boat made ofbones and ork skin.

Birdland · 03-15-2003, 06:38 PM

The boat was made from...the skull of a Balrog!

alatar · 06-11-2008, 01:44 PM

Truly, if it were an actual boat and not just some floating collection of wood, it has no place in that cave. Why?

Orcs - When did orcs become Captains Courageous? Weren't the rafts used to cross the Anduin at the edge of the Third Age somewhat novel?

Smeagol - He obviously didn't bring it with him, as typically one does not take a boat when mountain climbing/worming through small holes in the ground.

Gollum - Where would he get the materials to make a boat? Again, I can go with a collection of wooden beams lashed together, but boat? Timber and pitch couldn't have been too readily available in the goblin hive. And what tools?

Gollum again - Anyway, is Gollum now the apprentice of Cirdan?

Mail-order catalogue?

Bêthberry · 06-11-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdland

The boat was made from...the skull of a Balrog!

And its sails were made from balrog wings!

Seriously, though, it could have been a coracle, made from skins and willow wands and fat.

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 06-11-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

And its sails were made from balrog wings!

Seriously, though, it could have been a coracle, made from skins and willow wands and fat.

Do you think that the goblins threw things that they didn't need into the cave such as broken tools or unneeded things that Smeagol could make a boat out of. His boat was most likely made out of a bunch of random junk that he found.

The Sixth Wizard · 06-12-2008, 07:17 AM

Driftwood? This begs the question; why didn't it rot? Where did it drift from (as driftwood floats on the surface) Was there an underground river that led out of the cave?

Anyway, who cares.

Gwathagor · 06-12-2008, 08:20 AM

I like the coracle concept.

Nazgûl-king · 06-13-2008, 04:47 AM

In The Hobbit it mentions that the Great Goblin at times sent Goblins to catch fish from Gollum's lake and that they never returned. Perhaps the goblins came to the lake with a boat and Gollum snuck up on them and killed them and kept the boat.

Maedhros_the_Tall · 06-13-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazgûl-king

In The Hobbit it mentions that the Great Goblin at times sent Goblins to catch fish from Gollum's lake and that they never returned. Perhaps the goblins came to the lake with a boat and Gollum snuck up on them and killed them and kept the boat.

I think this idea if far more likely than bits of wood etc appearing in the lake and being fashioned into a crude boat. Its probably more likely than him building a coracle, but thats also quite feasible!

Bêthberry · 06-14-2008, 12:12 PM

What I like about the coracle hypthesis is the idea of Gollem paddling around in circles. Seems a fitting metaphor for one so bound by the Ring. Not that the celtic seafarers so paddled on their way West, of course.

Groin Redbeard · 06-14-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazgûl-king

In The Hobbit it mentions that the Great Goblin at times sent Goblins to catch fish from Gollum's lake and that they never returned. Perhaps the goblins came to the lake with a boat and Gollum snuck up on them and killed them and kept the boat.

This is more along the lines of what I was thinking. Good job, Nazgul.

Rune Son of Bjarne · 06-14-2008, 11:16 PM

Maybe the Goblins did build the boat, but I doubt it.

First of all it would make more sence for gollum to build it as he could actually need one, I don't see why the Goblins would need it and if they did I think they would build more than one.

Also boat building was never the Goblins strong side, but the riverfolk on the other hand had some skill in this area. So Gollum would probably be better at boat building than the, not that this proves anything at all.

I also think that if the goblins was to explore a lake they would go more than one, at least two goblins would be required and if I remember correctly then Gollum was quite careful when it came to Goblins. I don't think he would dare fighting more than one at the time, even if he did have the ring.

skip spence · 06-15-2008, 01:16 AM

To carry on alatar's addict-analogy, which is fitting, I think Gollum would have been very different when he had the ring. Without it, all he could think of was the ring he was robbed of; every waking hour he would obsess about it, and he wouldn't have built anything unless he thought it could be of immidiate help in his quest to retain it.

With the ring in his possession his addiction would be satisfied, but he was far from happy. The hours must have been endless for him deep in the dungeon, far away from anything remotely plesant. He would have fantasized about getting rid of the ring, leaving the mountain and picking up his life again. Yet, this he could never do. Is it not possible then that he would channel this frustration and boredom into something like building a boat, in order to explore his lake and for convenience? After all, he had a curious mind, entering the dungeon partly in a quest to unravel the secrets at the roots of the mountain.

Edit: A lot of addicts are also very creative artists.

Anyway, there are lots of anachronistic and odd details in the Hobbit. It is simply not written as tightly as Tolkien's other works. Gollum's boat, however, is only slightly odd to me.

Eönwë · 06-16-2008, 11:07 AM

Maybe he made it out of the goblins' fire-wood (which he stole using the ring).

03-13-2003, 08:54 AM	#1
Túrin Turambar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hithlum Posts: 11	Gollum's boat?? How could Gollum have a boat while he lived in a cave? and where did he get it from? __________________ All in all is all we are... Join The Prancing Pony today!

03-13-2003, 04:07 PM	#2
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	Have you ever seen a ship in a bottle? Man, those things are crazy. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

03-13-2003, 04:28 PM	#3
Isilmëiel Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: wandering about... Posts: 33	An old shield of an orc or someone an orc killed? And yes, those ships in the bottles are insane...how do they do it? __________________ I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. ~Graffito

03-13-2003, 11:19 PM	#5
Pukel-Man Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona, -East of Dunharrow Posts: 54	Since Smeagol originally dwelt on the banks of the Great River before he was corrupted by the ring, it is probable that he became learned in the skills of boat-making. It would not be hard for him to use bone, skin and sinew to construct a small boat. __________________ This is not the time or the place to perform some kind of a half-assed autopsy on a fish... And I'm not going to stand here and see that thing cut open and see that little Kintner boy spill out all over the dock!-Mayor Vaughn

03-14-2003, 12:18 AM	#6
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	He lived there in that cave for about 500 years, he had a lot of time on his hands. When he was not spending time with his Precious, he probably got board. So he decided to do something constructive. Thus building a boat. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] [ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ] __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

03-13-2003, 04:30 PM	#4
Meoshi Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atop the peak of Kalormë Posts: 163	Folding ships. And if a river(or even a small stream) flowed into the cave, it would bring driftwood.

03-14-2003, 02:22 PM	#7
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	The boat probably lay there already for the Orcs uses, maybe for if they needed to get across the lake in haste. I think I recall in the Hobbit that the entrance where Bilbo came to the lake wasn't the only entrance to the lake. So, maybe the Orcs used the lake as a shortcut. __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

03-15-2003, 04:44 PM	#8
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	No, it was quiet the other way around: The goblin-tunnel bilbo used was a dead-end since the goblins stopped tunneling when they reached the lake. But I find it very probable that Golum found the boot there, left by the Goblins that had once explored the lake before they decieded to stop the tunneling this way. Respectfully Findegil

03-15-2003, 05:07 PM	#9
Aragost Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Arthedain Posts: 137	I think Pukel-Man is right, Gollum could have easily put together a boat made ofbones and ork skin. __________________ Where there's a whip there's a will

03-15-2003, 06:38 PM	#10
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	The boat was made from...the skull of a Balrog!

06-11-2008, 01:44 PM	#11
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	Truly, if it were an actual boat and not just some floating collection of wood, it has no place in that cave. Why? Orcs - When did orcs become Captains Courageous? Weren't the rafts used to cross the Anduin at the edge of the Third Age somewhat novel? Smeagol - He obviously didn't bring it with him, as typically one does not take a boat when mountain climbing/worming through small holes in the ground. Gollum - Where would he get the materials to make a boat? Again, I can go with a collection of wooden beams lashed together, but boat? Timber and pitch couldn't have been too readily available in the goblin hive. And what tools? Gollum again - Anyway, is Gollum now the apprentice of Cirdan? Mail-order catalogue? __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

06-12-2008, 07:17 AM	#14
The Sixth Wizard Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stuck under a rock in Valinor with Ar-Pharazon. Posts: 480	Driftwood? This begs the question; why didn't it rot? Where did it drift from (as driftwood floats on the surface) Was there an underground river that led out of the cave? Anyway, who cares.

06-12-2008, 08:20 AM	#15
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	I like the coracle concept. __________________ Stories and songs.

06-13-2008, 04:47 AM	#16
Nazgûl-king Wight Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 104	In The Hobbit it mentions that the Great Goblin at times sent Goblins to catch fish from Gollum's lake and that they never returned. Perhaps the goblins came to the lake with a boat and Gollum snuck up on them and killed them and kept the boat.

06-14-2008, 12:12 PM	#18
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Round about What I like about the coracle hypthesis is the idea of Gollem paddling around in circles. Seems a fitting metaphor for one so bound by the Ring. Not that the celtic seafarers so paddled on their way West, of course. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

06-15-2008, 01:16 AM	#21
skip spence shadow of a doubt Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the streets Posts: 1,125	To carry on alatar's addict-analogy, which is fitting, I think Gollum would have been very different when he had the ring. Without it, all he could think of was the ring he was robbed of; every waking hour he would obsess about it, and he wouldn't have built anything unless he thought it could be of immidiate help in his quest to retain it. With the ring in his possession his addiction would be satisfied, but he was far from happy. The hours must have been endless for him deep in the dungeon, far away from anything remotely plesant. He would have fantasized about getting rid of the ring, leaving the mountain and picking up his life again. Yet, this he could never do. Is it not possible then that he would channel this frustration and boredom into something like building a boat, in order to explore his lake and for convenience? After all, he had a curious mind, entering the dungeon partly in a quest to unravel the secrets at the roots of the mountain. Edit: A lot of addicts are also very creative artists. Anyway, there are lots of anachronistic and odd details in the Hobbit. It is simply not written as tightly as Tolkien's other works. Gollum's boat, however, is only slightly odd to me. __________________ "You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan Last edited by skip spence; 06-15-2008 at 03:42 AM.

06-16-2008, 11:07 AM	#22
Eönwë Flame Imperishable Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Right here Posts: 3,928	Maybe he made it out of the goblins' fire-wood (which he stole using the ring). __________________ Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place