What did the movie help you "recover"

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

One of the functions of fantasy is, according to Professor Tolkien, that it shows us the world in a new light, allowing us to see it afresh and to realise the wondrous and the fabulous as it exists before us in the everyday. How can anyone who has fallen under the enchantment of the ents, for example, ever look at a tree in quite the same way?

I think that the films offer us the same sort of opportunity. I have found that there is much in the book that has been "recovered" for me through my experience of the movies. It's not that the films have 'changed' or 'improved' my perceptions of the book or how I imagine it -- Frodo still looks like Frodo and not Elijah Wood for me -- but, rather, I have found that certain aspects of the book have become fresher to me, having seen the movie version of them.

For example: after seeing FotR and crying my eyes out at the death of Boromir, my perceptions of the character in the book have reverted to an earlier sense I had of him. When I first read the book, he was a tragic hero, but on subsequent readings his greatness and heroism became expected, even commonplace, and all I could see were his flaws. But the film reminded me of what attracted me to him in the first place, and I have been able to retrieve that sense of him and to graft it onto my more experienced (cynical?) view, resulting in an altogether much richer and fuller sense of the character.

The list of such characters and moments for me goes on and on. The charge of the Rohirrim is right there at the top of the list. I never lost my sense of wonder at this moment in the book, but the version of it that gets up on screen -- with the army charging forward crying out "death death death" -- well, again, I cried like a fool when watching that, and have been able to carry that sense with me as I go back to the book. There's a sadness in that moment which I saw first in the movie and am able now to appreciate in the book.

Theoden himself has been revealed in all kinds of wonderful new dimensions by the films. He is far more complicated than I had given him credit for. When I first saw TTT I thought, "Theoden is not like that! He's not a self-doubting man in retreat from the full reality of the situation!" Imagine my shock when I re-read the book and realised that all along, there had been hints of this in the story, which I had missed utterly.

Again, there are dozens of examples, but I will finish with but one more: the smile that Frodo gives as he boards the ship. The joy, the absolute happiness that Wood is able to convey in that moment is not really anywhere in the book, but it makes sense to me and has "recovered" that moment in a way that I had never anticipated. It is terribly terribly sad for those who are being left behind, and for those who are departing, but Frodo is finally going to find the peace and healing tha he had never thought to have. Of course he would be happy.

Oh -- just one more. Gandalf. I recovered my enchanted sense of wonder at his power when he described the "far green country" to Pippin. I had forgotten that he was an Istari, and a noble figure far above the humble appearance and powers that he allowed himself in Middle-earth.

So, did anyone else have aspects of the book "recovered" for them? I'm particularly interested in hearing if there are any themes or ideas that you had forgotten about or never seen in the book, but which the movie helped you to recover.

NOTE: Please -- only post to this thread if you wish to discuss the ways in which the movies helped or enhanced or recovered your experience of the book. If you want to slag the films or complain about things they did "wrong" there are plenty of other threads you can do that on!

[radagastly]

Fordim, you do have a knack. I wish you had been my teacher.

I should also say that my comments are all rooted in the Extended Editions of the movies as I never saw the need to buy the theatrical versions. They're more ripe with character development anyway, as Peter Jackson said.

The first thing that comes to mind is a very brief scene, a couple of shots, really.

Sam says, "Look, Frodo! It's Mister Bilbo's trolls!"

I know in the book, this scene takes place in the daylight, and is a humorous lull from the painful trek from Weathertop, and it doesn't really recall the scene from The Fellowship, but it does bring back what Tolkien called "Bilbo's first serious adventure." The stone trolls seem more frightening in the film than they do when the four hobbits encounter them, but they are every bit as scary as they are when Bilbo encounters them. It's important that Sam is the one who says it. It was HIS troll song, after all.

Isn't it funny how little details like this escape you when you are re-reading, and come back to you when seen through new eyes? There is the image of Frodo and Sam in orc armor approaching the plains of Gorgorath that I thought was captured perfectly, without a word really, that had lost it's humor (or perhaps whimsy would be a better word) for me many years ago. The scene of Merry and Pippin smoking Saruman's pipeweed and getting a little drunk on his wine had become (for me) a structural necessity and a source of exposition, and had long since lost (some, not all of) its fun. For me, it had become a brief moment of joy at the reunion of this much of the Fellowship. Merry and Pippin were finally SAFE. The comedy of their display had departed.

I've noticed that there seems to be a theme to what I felt when I watched the movies compared to when I read the books. It has to do with the moments of humor. I think the movies very much brought back to me Tolkien's humor. He uses humor a lot to difuse the tension momentarily, for a few pages, then gets back to the action. When you're aware of the pending action, and you've heard the jokes before, I think I (at least) tend to simply accept the 'funny' as what it is, and then move on to the more "serious" parts of the book. P.J. and company gave me back much of what I had been missing.

Just as a side note, I must say, I agree with you about Frodo's smile on the Last Ship. When you mentioned it, I immediately looked it up. What I noticed is that Tolkien capitalizes the word 'West.'

And the ship went out into the High Seas and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain, Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a a far green country under a swift sunrise.

It's kinda all there in that smile, isn't it?

[The Saucepan Man]

This is slightly different from the question that you asked, Fordim, but there are two primarly respects in which the films have improved my experience of LotR and Tolkien's other works.

First, while the visualisation of Middle-earth in the films largely matched the images in my own imagination, there are a number of areas where it has actually improved on them. One example which springs to mind is Theoden. I had always imagined the King of Rohan as an older man with a long snowy white beard. I much prefer the image that Bernard Hill presents, and so I have "stolen" it for my own imagination. I also always had immense difficulties imagining what Ents actually looked like. Now I have a great image, based on (although not entirely identical to) their portrayal in the films.

Secondly, I had not read LotR for many years before the films came out. And I had never read The Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales. On watching the first film, I immediately went home and started reading the book. The films brought me back to the book, and to Tolkien's wider world. They also brought me to the Downs, since my first exploration of the internet in the context of Tolkien was in relation to the films, to find out who had been cast in the various roles and what they looked like. This, in turn, brought me to the Downs and ultimately (although some time later) the Discussion Forum. And that has brought to me a much wider knowledge of and broader insight into Tolkien's works than I had ever previously imagined was possible. But for the films, I might not be here (which may, in itself, be a reason for others to curse the films ).

[Boromir88]

I only have time for a quick reply, hopefully I can get back here later, it looks like another great thread that Fordhim has started.

I see Theoden's name popping up a lot, and to add something that no one has said yet and that really got me to see a different side to Theoden....

Besides the fact that Bernard Hill does a wonderful job acting, I love the added scenes with Theoden and Eowyn. There's this deep bond between them, that I didn't really feel in the book. Theoden just basically told Eowyn what to do. I mean when Theoden rides off to Helm's Deep and has to choose an heir if he doesn't return, he even forgets about Eowyn, and has to be reminded of her. In the movie, I loved the scenes between Otto and Hill. The dialogue between them...

"No...you must do this, for me."

Eowyn: What other duty would you have me do my lord?
Theoden: Duty? No...I would have you smile again, not grieve for those who's time has come.

And then the lovely ROTK EE scene, where Eowyn is fighting ferociously next to Theoden. Theoden doesn't know it's her, and just gets that look like "who is this person?"

I think this case is more like SpM's, that it improved my experience in LOTR.

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

I read the books coupled with the movies. I was aware of the books before the movies but hadn't been openly obsessed with them. When I went to college I started re-reading them and saw the movies at the same time so LOTR became a vital center of my universe. But now as I look at it I'm able to distinguish between movie and book because fortunately i read each book before I saw the movie, but LOTR isn't refreshing. My view of the books isn't refreshed by seeing the movie and vice versa. They have blended together while still being separate, does anyone understand what I mean? It is now a piece of literary work that I can understand as a piece of greatness but I can't grasp the same high that I experienced when I first read the books. I'm not saying that I'm tired of the books or the movies, I'm saying that it's like looking at hours and hours of Monet and appreciating their beauty but not being able to completely grasp it. Has anyone else shared a similiar experience?

[Lalwendë]

The only area of the books which I failed to get a concrete grasp on was what Saruman might look like, how he might behave, and how he might speak. My image of him was always 'shifting' in my mind - which is odd considering his nature - or perhaps it was because of his nature that I never fully got a handle on him. However, now the films have been made I do imagine Saruman as Chris Lee plays him, so I would suppose that this is something I have 'recovered'. I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing myself; perhaps I was meant to have no fixed image of him? As for the rest of the books, I imagine them more or less as I always did imagine them, though elements of the films have crept in, as that would be difficult to avoid with such a visually impressive film.

Originally Posted by SpM

I also always had immense difficulties imagining what Ents actually looked like. Now I have a great image, based on (although not entirely identical to) their portrayal in the films.

Now I always had a pretty vivid idea of Ents! I'm one of those people who sees faces and hands and the like in the twisty shapes of trees so I always imagined Ents to be like that, a very peculiar, exceptionally characterful tree.

But, the films have recovered something pretty important, and that's not to do with my images of anything. It's that all the Tolkien fans have finally emerged, blinking, into the daylight!

[Evisse the Blue]

Originally Posted by AbercrombieOfRohan

It is now a piece of literary work that I can understand as a piece of greatness but I can't grasp the same high that I experienced when I first read the books. I'm not saying that I'm tired of the books or the movies, I'm saying that it's like looking at hours and hours of Monet and appreciating their beauty but not being able to completely grasp it. Has anyone else shared a similiar experience?

In a way, yes, I think I have. The first time is always special. It's a bit weird actually that I try, with each reading to grasp the same emotional high, as you put it. Actually this is one of the main reasons why I re-read, and why I watch the movies as well.

Ok back to the scenes that helped me recover some parts of the book that I had not payed enough attention:

The final scene: I never really cared for the ending in the book, I had always found it simplistic and somewhat dissapointing. When I saw it in the movie, though, I got tears in my eyes (perhaps you should make a poll how many of us cried at the movies, Fordim, since I can see you're in the mood for it lately ). The movie version revealed to me the true beauty of that scene, its meaning - the simple pleasures of a hobbit's life: that's what it's all about. That's what Frodo was fighting for, that's what kept Sam going throughout all the horror. It's sort of Tolkien's way of saying to you to value food and cheer and flowers in the garden over 'hoarded gold' or bombastic endings, if you will.

The Ride of the Rohirrim would have been my choice as well, but that I found pretty impressive in the book too. Still, it's one of the best scenes in movie history, ever. (though I don't claim to know that much about movie history)

Boromir was for me too a revelation (due mostly to the great role by Sean Bean) - he made me like Boromir and see things from his point of view, which never happened during the book. Even though Tolkien tried sometimes to make Boromir more likeable, he 'made it up' by adding stuff which made him even more dislikeable than before, culminating with his famous trespassing. The end redeemed him somehow, but still (*gasp*) I think I prefer the end in the movies.

Originally Posted by Lalwende

But, the films have recovered something pretty important, and that's not to do with my images of anything. It's that all the Tolkien fans have finally emerged, blinking, into the daylight!

I did emerge into the daylight blinking to see the movies, but then went straight back to my hole in the ground!

[Lyta_Underhill]

Yet another great thread idea from Fordim's endless reservoir of analysis and appreciation and lots of theorizing as well! I find it irresistible to add a bit of my own thoughts on this theme:

I must second and third the impact of the film Boromir on my appreciation of the books, as Sean Bean humanized the Great Man of Gondor into a man conflicted by his nature, who recognizes it and redeems his fall almost immediately and far-reachingly. If it had not been for this newfound appreciation for Boromir, I doubt I would have found the additional depths in Pippin, who subsequently became one of my absolute favorite characters. The resonance between Boromir and Pippin (and also parallelled by the Merry-Theoden and Pippin-Denethor relationships) fleshed out an important aspect of hobbit nature that I could not have lived without now that I think about it. This development tied together all of Middle Earth in an important way for me.

Another aspect of the movie that brought the book to new life were the Ents, an important subconscious image that buried itself deeply in my mind the first time I read the books and subsequently surfaced in strange ways over and over again throughout the years. Seeing them and watching their interactions with the newly expanded hobbits made my mind explode in a real 'faerie' way, if that makes any sense. It was almost like eating the faerie star Tolkien presents in "Smith of Wootton Major." But there were many things that gained this level as I re-read LOTR several times thereafter and finally made it through the Silmarillion (twice in a row...) and on to the other tales. It was like finally seeing a magical figure that had been standing in front of me and waving its arms frantically for years!

There is more, but I will probably have to return later to finish my thoughts. Great thread!

Cheers!
Lyta

Before I saw the movies, I had about 5 friends tell me I really needed to seem em. I didn't really want to because I rented the first one and didn't really get into it. But then again, the introduction at the beginning can be kinda slow and boring if you don't know what's going on. Over the summer I saw the movies and I loved em. I'm now reading the bookd...slowly. I'm glad I got into the movie because that lead me to a book that comes to life not only on the screen.

[Linnahiril Tinnufinwen]

I would have to say that the one thing the movies truly helped clarify for me was the role of Gollum. His look, his voice, his importance, everything. As I was reading the novel, I tended to imagine him as this sort of nasty, mean gnome-like thing. I had no sympathy for him, as was glad when he died at the end. Not to say that Gollum didn't have his "nasty" moments in the movie as well, but I think that the script helped me understand his torment and his "addiction" to the ring much better. I had much more sympathy for him while watching the films, and I now understand the true affect the ring can have on an impressionable mind, which was something I didn't quite grasp when I read the books.

[Mithalwen]

I also feel that Boromir came through the film strongly - I had always slightly dismissed him, having read the LOTR at a sufficiently young age perhaps not to fully appreciate the complexities of his situation and his importance to the plot. In fact on seeing the films, I though PJ might have actually have made him more sympathetic but now haveing gone back to the books I think it was a true portrayal, perhaps truer than any other main characters. Perhaps he was fortunate that his character was so pivotal to the main plotline. Perhaps because of the wise move of recruiting John Howe and Alan Lee, visually most of Middle Earth looked right and so I accepted the bits I hadn't visualised fully (the exception being Loth Lorien) and the bits I had were brought into clearer focus. I also think Rohan was a winner - in the booksit and its people seemed to play second fiddle in so many respects to Gondor .... the films gave them a dignity that I hadn't fully appreciated although it does exist in the books.

Oh and like so many others the films sent me back to the books which had been largely neglected for nigh on a decade. As a teenager I had all the Tolkien I could lay my hands on and collected the first four volume of HoME as they were issued in paper back. Then at A Level you got the impression that a passion for Tolkien was not something to be broadcast and by the time I started my BA in Lit, I was firmly in the closet. At first I didn't want to see the films because I didn't thinkI could bear it ... then I saw the trailer and I was lost ... I don't know if it was a factor that I was one of those people who used Middle Earth as an escape from a miserable adolescence and the films came out at a time I once again needed a refuge from my day to day world.

[Bêthberry]

The movies renewed my sense of curiosity and wonder about the creator.

I watched the movies looking for signs of PJ himself. They were fun to pick out. Now I'm wondering if I should go back to the books to try to find Tolkien in them.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

When I first saw the movie portrayal of Denethor's attitude toward Faramir, I thought it was one of the things PJ had over-dramatized. Now, after re-reading some of the passages concerning their relationship, I realize that it really was that bad!

I agree about Boromir - the movie improved my impression of him.

One more detail that I appreciated - the scene where Bilbo tells the children of his adventures reminded me that Frodo's friends in the book (Merry, Pippin, Folco and Fredegar) were young relatives who hung around at Bilbo's place in their childhood. Of course the movie doesn't allow for that time difference, so none of the little ones would be them - and they are shown at their older age at the party. Yet the scene echoed that bit of the book story for me.

[mark12_30]

...simmering... great thread, Fordie. Simmering....

Movie-Frodo threw Book-Frodo into sharp relief, and so Movie-Frodo actually helped me see Book-Frodo in a completely new way... But I've gone into that elsewhere, in Child's 'Two Frodos' thread.

Still, lots and lots of Frodo stuff... mostly because Movie-Frodo was so often a center of controversy, and so Book-Frodo got discussed quuite often.

I shall have to keep thinking about this...

[alatar]

I liked the Boromir of the movies as portrayed by Sean Bean. He was no longer some muscle guy trying to grab the Ring for his own glory, but a tragic figure trying to help save his father and his people, yet not knowing how (except to use the Ring). Such despair! I felt for him when he died, and those arrows are still painful to watch.

Also, I finally understood what Tolkien meant by Boromir having 'conquered' and not 'failing.' After attempting to take the Ring from Frodo, Boromir could have slunk away to hide his guilt and shame. But he didn't, thinking of his friends and honor first before his own desires, and so he gives his life for Merry and Pippin.

[Snorri Swifthammer]

I have to say that Boromir role was defined in the movie much more as the tragic hero he was meant to be.

Also the other scene that did it for mw was when Merry (I think it was Merry?) makes a statement to the effect of " I know I can't save the world, but I just want to help my friends." That statement for me really brought home that the rather simple hobbits are suddenly thrust into the middle of a great conflict and have to try and survive. But the statement really shows the hobbit's center is really the relationship with their friends and that is what keeps them going.