Malbeth the Seer and his prophecy - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Imbefana · 05-12-2004, 09:16 PM

In RotK, Aragorn cites an old prophecy made by Malbeth the Seer and proves that he is its fulfillment as king of the Dúnedain. This is the quote from the Appendices (from A I'm pretty sure) in which Malbeth says to Araphant at his son's, Arvedui's, birth.

Quote:

Arvedui you shall call him, for he will be the last in Arthedain. Though a choice will come to the Dunedain, and if they take the one that seems less hopeful, then your son will change his name and become a king of a great realm. If not, then much sorrow and many lives of men shall pass, until the Dunedain arise and are united again.”

From the outcome of the Battle of Fornost (in which the kingdom of Arthedain and consequently Arnor were destroyed and the heirs of Elendil became a wandering folk) and Aragorn's fulfillment of 'the Dúnedain arise and are united again', it's clear they chose at the time the more hopeful road which led to their ruin. I remember reading I think in FotR where someone says a prophecy never makes sense until it is already fulfilled, but what could have been the choices presented to the Northern Dúnedain?

What did they choose between? Any thoughts?

Oh, and one more thing. Who or what was Malbeth? Was he a man with the gift of foresight (thousands of years ahead of his time), or some type of Maiar? I don't believe he's mentioned after his prophecy of the destruction of Arnor, but are there any thoughts? Thanks,

*I just looked over a thread about two years old (here) concerning this same topic, and it was a very interesting read. Yet they assume that Mabelth's prophecy was concerning Gondor's refusal of Arvedui's claim to its throne, and discuss the repercussions of that act and not other possibilities of the prophecy's meaning. Is Malbeth mentioned in the UT or some other source other than LotR? My original question still stands, yet is a bit modified: are there any other possibilities for the meaning of Malbeth's prophecy besides the uniting of the Dúnedain as one under Arvedui?*

Angry Hill Troll · 05-12-2004, 09:48 PM

The choice which confronted the Dunedain (more those of Gondor than of Arnor) was whether Arvedui or Eärnil should claim the kingship of Gondor, in the absence of a direct heir to the throne. Arvedui's claim was primarily through his mother, who was of the royal family of Gondor, but also as Isildur's heir. This would have reunited the two kingdoms of the Dunedain, which ultimately was achieved by Aragorn. (note that after doing so, Aragorn changed is name, just as Malbeth prophesied that Arvedui would have).

But the Gondorians rejected Arvedui's claim, dismissing the northern Dunedain as poor cousins, whose kingdom, even before its final destruction, had all but dwindled into nothing. Hence the Gondorians regarded the choice of Arvedui for king of Gondor as the "less hopeful" one, compared to Eärnil, who while not in a very direct line of the throne, was at least of the royal house of Gondor (a "real" kingdom in their view).

Malbeth was a Dunedain who acted as counsellor to the royal house of Arthedain, and who was, for whatever reason, endowed with the gift of prophesy.

Imbefana · 05-12-2004, 10:30 PM

Thank you very much, angry hill troll, for that very straightforward answer. When I was rereading Appendix A, and I saw that prophesy, that question immediately came to mind and I misinterpreted Dunedain to mean Northern Dunedain or Arnorians only so from the start my reasoning was faulty. Of course, it does make sense now. Thanks again!

05-12-2004, 09:48 PM	#2
Angry Hill Troll Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ephel Duath Posts: 115	The choice which confronted the Dunedain (more those of Gondor than of Arnor) was whether Arvedui or Eärnil should claim the kingship of Gondor, in the absence of a direct heir to the throne. Arvedui's claim was primarily through his mother, who was of the royal family of Gondor, but also as Isildur's heir. This would have reunited the two kingdoms of the Dunedain, which ultimately was achieved by Aragorn. (note that after doing so, Aragorn changed is name, just as Malbeth prophesied that Arvedui would have). But the Gondorians rejected Arvedui's claim, dismissing the northern Dunedain as poor cousins, whose kingdom, even before its final destruction, had all but dwindled into nothing. Hence the Gondorians regarded the choice of Arvedui for king of Gondor as the "less hopeful" one, compared to Eärnil, who while not in a very direct line of the throne, was at least of the royal house of Gondor (a "real" kingdom in their view). Malbeth was a Dunedain who acted as counsellor to the royal house of Arthedain, and who was, for whatever reason, endowed with the gift of prophesy. Last edited by Angry Hill Troll; 05-12-2004 at 09:55 PM.

05-12-2004, 10:30 PM	#3
Imbefana Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: idly sitting on a dock in Mithlond Posts: 19	Thank you very much, angry hill troll, for that very straightforward answer. When I was rereading Appendix A, and I saw that prophesy, that question immediately came to mind and I misinterpreted Dunedain to mean Northern Dunedain or Arnorians only so from the start my reasoning was faulty. Of course, it does make sense now. Thanks again! __________________ ~You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?" --- George Bernard Shaw~