Does not being fully Elven affect looks? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Luinëcolloien · 11-30-2002, 05:41 PM

I brought this up in different thread but I figured I should probably start a new thread for this...it's kind of strange. Here goes.
In the books, Elrond, Elladan, and Elrohir were all described as looking 'niether young nor old' (or something of that like, I don't have the exact quote, sorry.) But Galadriel, however, or Glorfindel or Legolas (who are all 100% pure Elven) are all assumed to look youthful and fair, correct? I don't think any of them were mentioned as looking that way (I could be wrong about this, forgive me if I am...)But does Elrond and his twin sons looking this way have something to do with them not being 100% Elven compared to the others, Galadriel, Glorfindel, or Legolas, who are all pure Elven?? I know this is strange, I was just thinking about it...and I wondered. Thanks for reading.

Nieninque · 11-30-2002, 07:15 PM

I've wondered about that too... I noticed that Elrond, Arwen, and his sons all have dark hair. Perchance this is due to their human blood as well?

Raefindel · 11-30-2002, 07:22 PM

If Elves show age anywhere, Tolkien seems to describe it being in their eyes. I wouldn't think being half Elven or 3/4 would make too much difference.

Susan Delgado · 11-30-2002, 07:24 PM

No, they are Noldor. Noldor have dark hair. Galdriel was an exception because her grandmother was Vanyar.

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 11-30-2002, 07:39 PM

I think that elves just show age through how much they know and in their eyes as raefindel said. Now besides knowledge, wisdom, and their eyes, I think that they do not show any physical aging. They are not supposed to look old. The way tolkien describes them makes the elves more of a mystery and shows how complex they are. I think that if they are not 100% elvish, that might have some effect on their physical appearance but not too noticeable. I think that maybe since Elrond was so wise it would make him appear to look older but since he is an elf, in stead of looking young, he looks neither young nor old.

Arwen Imladris · 11-30-2002, 08:10 PM

What about Cirdan? Was he not old looking?

Keeper of Dol Guldur · 12-02-2002, 03:08 PM

I think they look older only for the same reason Aragorn and the Dunedain looked haggard and grim-endless years of strife in defending the world from the enemies. The Dunedain were said to be fair, but grim. They made the Rohirrim look like mere boys. And they were descended from Elros (Elrond's brother to the layman). So sure, that mortal sorrow and worried appearance may have shown a little.

amyrlis · 12-02-2002, 06:07 PM

Arwen - it is my understanding that Cirdan was the oldest elf remaining in Middle Earth during the War of the Rings. He was among those at the awakening at Cuiviénen, but did not travel to Aman during the great sundering of the elves. So, he was very old, even among elves.

Man-of-the-Wold · 12-05-2002, 11:01 PM

The first observation is a good one. Tolkien I think wants the Peredhil to be distinct from true Elves, especially Elrond, who is described in "The Hobbit" as a looking like a Man in his prime, which might not be entirely apt for any elfin-male.

In a sense, they would not be recognizably different from an Elf to someone simply seeing them, but also perhaps more able to pass as human.

Elrond and his children are frequently referred as having the life or beauty of the Elves, but they are not called Elves.

I think this is one reason why with Gil-Galad's death, Elrond does not become the new High-King of the Elves, as he might be entitled by royal lineage.

Túroch · 12-06-2002, 01:43 AM

The reason that Elrond and his sons still seem elven is because of Elrond choice to remain with the destiny of the first-born. Although his bloodline might be 9/16 Eleven, 6/16 Human, 1/16 Maia (I calculated it, i'm such a geek) his his life and destiny still follows that of full blooded elves. There should be no difference in how old they look they are immortal. They don't show age they simply show the wisdom and grace that accomponies age.

11-30-2002, 05:41 PM	#1
Luinëcolloien Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 31	Does not being fully Elven affect looks? I brought this up in different thread but I figured I should probably start a new thread for this...it's kind of strange. Here goes. In the books, Elrond, Elladan, and Elrohir were all described as looking 'niether young nor old' (or something of that like, I don't have the exact quote, sorry.) But Galadriel, however, or Glorfindel or Legolas (who are all 100% pure Elven) are all assumed to look youthful and fair, correct? I don't think any of them were mentioned as looking that way (I could be wrong about this, forgive me if I am...)But does Elrond and his twin sons looking this way have something to do with them not being 100% Elven compared to the others, Galadriel, Glorfindel, or Legolas, who are all pure Elven?? I know this is strange, I was just thinking about it...and I wondered. Thanks for reading. __________________ (·.(·.·¤·.·).·) «Luinëcolloien» (.·(.··¤··.)·.)

11-30-2002, 07:15 PM	#2
Nieninque Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: East Bight Posts: 67	I've wondered about that too... I noticed that Elrond, Arwen, and his sons all have dark hair. Perchance this is due to their human blood as well? __________________ ----- Legolas: A red sun rises in the East. Blood has been spilt this night. Aragorn: Goddamn elf's talking to himself again! I'm surrounded by weirdos...

11-30-2002, 07:22 PM	#3
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,323	If Elves show age anywhere, Tolkien seems to describe it being in their eyes. I wouldn't think being half Elven or 3/4 would make too much difference. __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

11-30-2002, 07:24 PM	#4
Susan Delgado The Perished Flame Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: behind my eyes Posts: 1,096	No, they are Noldor. Noldor have dark hair. Galdriel was an exception because her grandmother was Vanyar. __________________ "Man as a whole, Man pitted against the universe, have we seen him at all 'til we see that he is like a hero in a fairy tale?"

11-30-2002, 07:39 PM	#5
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 573	I think that elves just show age through how much they know and in their eyes as raefindel said. Now besides knowledge, wisdom, and their eyes, I think that they do not show any physical aging. They are not supposed to look old. The way tolkien describes them makes the elves more of a mystery and shows how complex they are. I think that if they are not 100% elvish, that might have some effect on their physical appearance but not too noticeable. I think that maybe since Elrond was so wise it would make him appear to look older but since he is an elf, in stead of looking young, he looks neither young nor old. __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie

11-30-2002, 08:10 PM	#6
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	What about Cirdan? Was he not old looking? __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

12-02-2002, 03:08 PM	#7
Keeper of Dol Guldur Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 315, CNY Boys and girls. Posts: 405	I think they look older only for the same reason Aragorn and the Dunedain looked haggard and grim-endless years of strife in defending the world from the enemies. The Dunedain were said to be fair, but grim. They made the Rohirrim look like mere boys. And they were descended from Elros (Elrond's brother to the layman). So sure, that mortal sorrow and worried appearance may have shown a little. __________________ "I come from yonder...Have you seen Baggins? Baggins has left, he is coming. He is not far away. I wish to find him. If he passes will you tell me? I will come back with gold." - Khamul the Easterling

12-02-2002, 06:07 PM	#8
amyrlis Wight Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Helcaraxe Posts: 210	Arwen - it is my understanding that Cirdan was the oldest elf remaining in Middle Earth during the War of the Rings. He was among those at the awakening at Cuiviénen, but did not travel to Aman during the great sundering of the elves. So, he was very old, even among elves. __________________ "Pull the blinders from my eyes, let me see these endless skies And drown here where I stand in the beauty of the land."

12-05-2002, 11:01 PM	#9
Man-of-the-Wold Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin Posts: 239	The first observation is a good one. Tolkien I think wants the Peredhil to be distinct from true Elves, especially Elrond, who is described in "The Hobbit" as a looking like a Man in his prime, which might not be entirely apt for any elfin-male. In a sense, they would not be recognizably different from an Elf to someone simply seeing them, but also perhaps more able to pass as human. Elrond and his children are frequently referred as having the life or beauty of the Elves, but they are not called Elves. I think this is one reason why with Gil-Galad's death, Elrond does not become the new High-King of the Elves, as he might be entitled by royal lineage. __________________ The hoes unrecked in the fields were flung, __ and fallen ladders in the long grass lay __ of the lush orchards; every tree there turned __ its tangled head and eyed them secretly, __ and the ears listened of the nodding grasses; __ though noontide glowed on land and leaf, __ their limbs were chilled.

12-06-2002, 01:43 AM	#10
Túroch Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oklahoma State University Posts: 102	The reason that Elrond and his sons still seem elven is because of Elrond choice to remain with the destiny of the first-born. Although his bloodline might be 9/16 Eleven, 6/16 Human, 1/16 Maia (I calculated it, i'm such a geek) his his life and destiny still follows that of full blooded elves. There should be no difference in how old they look they are immortal. They don't show age they simply show the wisdom and grace that accomponies age. __________________ For the valour of the Edain the Elves shall ever remember as the ages lengthen, marvelling that they gave life so freely of which thay had on earth so little. But it is not for thy valour only that I send thee, but to bring into the world a hope beyond thy sight, and a light that shall pierce the darkness." Ulmo - Lord of waters