Riddles in the Downs

[Galadriel55]

No, not that direction either.

[Galadriel55]

Ere elf sang or hammer rang,
Ere iron was found or tree was hewn,
When young was mountain under moon,
I was still whole, I dwelt alone.

Ere tree was hewn, they needed me.
A great force did tug at me,
But strong was my connection,
My land I would not leave.
From that day I was broken.

They came again to my domain,
And tree was hewed, and jewels were found,
And then no more they needed me
To leave the land, where I was stuck.
But I gave them protection,
I gave them a start.
I shall stay until I die,
They will all depart.

[Urwen]

I am confused....The riddle implies it's about someone who existed before elves awoke, but it's not any of the guesses already made......


Treebeard, maybe?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I am confused....The riddle implies it's about someone who existed before elves awoke, but it's not any of the guesses already made......


Treebeard, maybe?

I would not have used the Ent riddle in a riddle about Ents. That would just be boring.

Think a little outside the box.

[Huinesoron]

Is it the Isle of Balar? Originally part of Tol Eressea, which 'dwelt alone' in the midst of Belgaer, it was broken off during one of the ferry trips (I want to say the second one, when Osse tried to hold Eressea in place to keep the Teleri from leaving). Much later, Cirdan and Gil-Galad's people fled to Balar and built havens there, which ended up being the refuge of all the surviving non-Kinslaying Eldar through the War of Wrath, at the end of which Balar was consumed by the waves.

The only line that confused me for a while after thinking this was 'jewels are found', but it seems pearls were common in the shallows around Balar, so that fits too.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Is it the Isle of Balar? Originally part of Tol Eressea, which 'dwelt alone' in the midst of Belgaer, it was broken off during one of the ferry trips (I want to say the second one, when Osse tried to hold Eressea in place to keep the Teleri from leaving). Much later, Cirdan and Gil-Galad's people fled to Balar and built havens there, which ended up being the refuge of all the surviving non-Kinslaying Eldar through the War of Wrath, at the end of which Balar was consumed by the waves.

The only line that confused me for a while after thinking this was 'jewels are found', but it seems pearls were common in the shallows around Balar, so that fits too.

hS

Indeed so! *Bows out*

Urwen, you should know by now that most of my riddles aren't people.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Urwen, you should know by now that most of my riddles aren't people.

In fairness I should note that I was already predisposed to think up inanimate answers after watching everyone guess people for my last riddle.

Anyway! This one is not a landmass or building. You're looking for who and when:

I hunt for giants and ogres vile
But none can find on any trail.
In the dark the truth I seek
But all I find's a sudden squeak.

hS

[Huinesoron]

It's been a couple of days, so a hint... I originally wrote 'in any tale' rather than 'on any trail', which is far more accurate.

hS

[Galadriel55]

I can't get rid of a hobbitish feeling. Bilbo and Gollum's riddling?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I can't get rid of a hobbitish feeling. Bilbo and Gollum's riddling?

That's the correct timeframe, but the answer here is a single person in a single, well-defined period of time.

hS

[Galadriel55]

A burrahobbit looking for the trolls and springing on a squeaking purse?

[Huinesoron]

Nice, but no. When I said you were in the right timeframe, I really meant it. You just need to be more specific.

It is Bilbo, though, I'll give you that.

hS

[Urwen]

Bilbo when he found the Ring?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Bilbo when he found the Ring?

Nope, later than that. This moment takes place while Gollum is present.

Take a look at the first line again.

hS

[Urwen]

Bilbo escaping from Gollum?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Bilbo escaping from Gollum?

I don't think he took a break from sneaking after Gollum to hunt for giants...

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is it when he tries to answer 'Give me more time!' but all that comes out is 'Time! Time!' - maybe in a squeak?

Ah ... he's hunting mentally for what could possibly be the thing that 'all things devours' and in his mind hunts for ogres and giants and things.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Is it when he tries to answer 'Give me more time!' but all that comes out is 'Time! Time!' - maybe in a squeak?

Ah ... he's hunting mentally for what could possibly be the thing that 'all things devours' and in his mind hunts for ogres and giants and things.

Nice.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Is it when he tries to answer 'Give me more time!' but all that comes out is 'Time! Time!' - maybe in a squeak?

Ah ... he's hunting mentally for what could possibly be the thing that 'all things devours' and in his mind hunts for ogres and giants and things.

Spot on! The precise passage is:

Originally Posted by The Hobbit

Poor Bilbo sat in the dark thinking of all the horrible names of all the giants and ogres he had ever heard told of in tales, but not one of them had done all these things. He had a feeling that the answer was quite different and that he ought to know it, but he could not think of it. He began to get frightened, and that is bad for thinking. Gollum began to get out of his boat. He flapped into the water and paddled to the bank; Bilbo could see his eyes coming towards him. His tongue seemed to stick in his mouth; he wanted to shout out: “Give me more time! Give me time!” But all that came out with a sudden squeal was:

“Time! Time!”

Bilbo was saved by pure luck. For that of course was the answer.

Give or take a couple of synonyms, you can put the entire riddle together just from that one paragraph.

You may consider this bizarre meta-riddle an April Fool's Day gift to you all. Over to you, Pervinca.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

You may consider this bizarre meta-riddle an April Fool's Day gift to you all.

That's a great meta riddle! Loved it!

[Pervinca Took]

Agreed - nice one, hS!

Urwen did a lot of the work towards the solving, though. (I thought at first it was the troll's purse too).

I am knackered, but have done my best, (my 'knackered' best, anyway):

Dripping blood, maybe
In inertia, but not silent.
Sentinels, possibly
Of a place both foul and violent.

[Urwen]

The first three lines spell out Dis, so she is my first answer.

[Pervinca Took]

Nothing to do with Dis.

[Urwen]

Vampires?

[Pervinca Took]

No.

Are there vampires in M-e?

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

No.

Are there vampires in M-e?

Thuringwethil was one.

[Galadriel55]

The second line suggests A and/or R as letters of the word. I wonder if lines 1 and 3 also have cryptic elements, but so far was unable to think of anything cryptic or literal that works well.

[Pervinca Took]

There aren't really any cryptic elements.

Try finding a foul and violent place first. (The foulness is manifest, but the violence more covert/hidden).

[Urwen]

There are many of those (Thangorodrim, Utumno, Angband, Barad-Dur, Moria, Minas Morgul, Cirith Ungol, Nan Dungotreb, maybe even Nan Elmoth)

[Huinesoron]

Looking at the whole riddle, I'm wondering about the not-so-Silent Watchers at Cirith Ungol.

Dripping blood, maybe - I wouldn't be surprised if this were part of their description; also given the massacre in the Tower they were metaphorically dripping with blood.

In inertia, but not silent. - They were stationary ('in inertia'), but despite their name, I believe shriek either when Sam enters or Frodo and Sam leave.

Sentinels, possibly - This is a synonym for 'watchers'. At first sight, it's not clear whether the pair of statues are guards or not.

Of a place both foul and violent. - If this doesn't describe an Orc tower on the borders of Mordor, I don't know what does!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I thought someone might guess the Watchers, and that was excellently argued. Not the answer I am looking for, though.

None of the 'foul places' suggested so far is the right one.

Think of 'foul' in the literal sense of 'disgusting.' (No, not Wormtongue's bookshelf). (Or Gorbag's toilet).

There is an especial reason for the 'dripping blood,' and for its being 'maybe.'

[Urwen]

Here is a fun answer: Grip, Fang and Wolf

[Pervinca Took]

Good idea!

My 'possible sentinels' don't have individual names, though.

P.S. I won't tell Farmer Maggot you said Bamfurlong was foul. He might set those very three mutts on you!

[Galadriel55]

The bodies in the Dead Marshes?

[Nerwen]

I'll go with something a bit more obscure: the Gorcrows from the "Mewlips" poem.

Dripping blood, maybe -play on "gore".
In inertia, but not silent. -"croaking in their sleep".
Sentinels, possibly -Well, they might be; who knows?
Of a place both foul and violent. -icky swamp, and the Mewlips kill you.

[Urwen]

Well, you did say to treat 'foul' as 'disgusting', and his name is also the name of collectively disgusting creatures.

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I'll go with something a bit more obscure: the Gorcrows from the "Mewlips" poem.

Dripping blood, maybe -play on "gore".
In inertia, but not silent. -"croaking in their sleep".
Sentinels, possibly -Well, they might be; who knows?
Of a place both foul and violent. -icky swamp, and the Mewlips kill you.

PERFECTLY correct!

I think Tolkien probably meant to imply crows that eat gore. (I'm sure I looked up 'gorcrows' once to see if it's an actual species).

They might or might not be sentinels, but I think they look like sentinels in Pauline Baynes's illustration in 'The Adventures of Tom Bombadil,' (two of them, one each side of the title).

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, you did say to treat 'foul' as 'disgusting', and his name is also the name of collectively disgusting creatures.

True. I did state disgusting place, though, not name/person. (Odd name for a decent chap, I always thought. I think there is probably another meaning/etymology besides the revolting one).

G55, I thought someone would go for the Dead Marshes after I stressed the 'foul as in disgusting' thing. I just didn't want to give it away completely by saying 'poetry' again.

Anyway, over to Nerwen!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

PERFECTLY correct!

I think Tolkien probably meant to imply crows that eat gore. (I'm sure I looked up 'gorcrows' once to see if it's an actual species).

They might or might not be sentinels, but I think they look like sentinels in Pauline Baynes's illustration in 'The Adventures of Tom Bombadil,' (two of them, one each side of the title).

Not an actual species, but according to a number of dictionaries, an obscure dialect word for "carrion crow". Tolkien did like his obscure dialect words.

[Pervinca Took]

The 'gor' could well apply to congealed blood, then. Which wouldn't drip, perhaps. Given that the Mewlips keep the bones, I wonder how much dinner the gorcrows actually get! Maybe some as a fee for keeping watch, to justify my riddle!