Riddles in the Downs - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Urwen · 03-17-2025, 05:42 AM

That's not it. This, too, is from a very specific source.

Also, the 'he' in the fifth line refers to 'father'.

The 'he' in the first line, the 'father', the speaker and the addressees are all different people, by the way, though loosely connected.

Huinesoron · 03-17-2025, 05:31 PM

This is very frustrating, because I feel like it's lurking just below the level of memory. I can so nearly feel it.

A wandering father ("finds his way") will always make me think of Hurin, but I don't think Turin had anyone with him in Brethil. Did some of his bandits show up for the Wanderings of Hurin? But then they would have to still be there when Hurin arrived, which is the opposite of what the riddle says.

The exile part also makes me think of Orodreth's words to Celegorm and Curufin, but that doesn't fit well. I do feel like it might be an elvish thing, but that might just be Orodreth getting in my head.

hS

Urwen · 03-18-2025, 05:44 AM

Oh, you're so close. So close. Just think a little more.

The riddle is a poetic reinterpretation of speaker's own words from [specific source].

Huinesoron · 03-18-2025, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Oh, you're so close. So close. Just think a little more.

The riddle is a poetic reinterpretation of speaker's own words from [specific source].

Aha, and it really is:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wanderings of Hurin

Here Turin son of Hurin dwelt for a time, and he delivered the land from the Serpent of England. For this I give you your lives. But he scorned Brandir, right Chieftain of Brethil, and he slew him without justice or pity. Therefore I will not harbour you here. [...] If Hurin comes [...] then I shall be here to meet him[...] But you will not. Now go!

Hardang, Chieftain of Brethil, to Asgon and his men. It must be especially bitter for them, given that Asgon's last words to Turin were telling him to go away and never come back.

hS

Urwen · 03-18-2025, 03:26 PM

Indeed it's so.

Although I think you meant to say 'serpent of Angband', not 'England'.

Huinesoron · 03-21-2025, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Although I think you meant to say 'serpent of Angband', not 'England'.

Oh no, yeah, in his last years Tolkien did a complete 180 on this, he changed a bunch of Silm stuff to be explicitly anti-England. The most obvious was Angband > England, but we also have Gothmog > George III and Morgoth > Elizabeth I for some reason. It's all there in NoME; part 2, I think.

Anyway!

One is ancient, ever-new
One lurks deep in shadow black
One came from stone and stone followed
One rides high but falls swift
One lies low amid the loam
But which am I?

Yeah I can't make it rhyme, sorry. (That's not a clue.)

hS

Urwen · 03-30-2025, 05:39 AM

I have a feeling that the descriptions are based on the elvish names.

03-17-2025, 05:42 AM	#1
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	That's not it. This, too, is from a very specific source. Also, the 'he' in the fifth line refers to 'father'. The 'he' in the first line, the 'father', the speaker and the addressees are all different people, by the way, though loosely connected. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

03-17-2025, 05:31 PM	#2
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,959	This is very frustrating, because I feel like it's lurking just below the level of memory. I can so nearly feel it. A wandering father ("finds his way") will always make me think of Hurin, but I don't think Turin had anyone with him in Brethil. Did some of his bandits show up for the Wanderings of Hurin? But then they would have to still be there when Hurin arrived, which is the opposite of what the riddle says. The exile part also makes me think of Orodreth's words to Celegorm and Curufin, but that doesn't fit well. I do feel like it might be an elvish thing, but that might just be Orodreth getting in my head. hS __________________ Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera

03-18-2025, 05:44 AM	#3
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Oh, you're so close. So close. Just think a little more. The riddle is a poetic reinterpretation of speaker's own words from [specific source]. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 03-18-2025 at 05:48 AM.

03-18-2025, 03:26 PM	#5
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Indeed it's so. Although I think you meant to say 'serpent of Angband', not 'England'. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 03-18-2025 at 03:30 PM.

03-30-2025, 05:39 AM	#7
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	I have a feeling that the descriptions are based on the elvish names. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.