**Spoiler Warning** Rings of Power, S2E7 - "Doomed to Die"

[Bêthberry]

Finally caught up and watched this episode this evening. I really appreciate Boro's discussions as they have whetted my interest.

For my part, most of the crappier stuff in "Rings of Power" is forgiven for this depiction of Sauron/Annatar and just how he can deceive and control. In many ways, the psychological nuances create a far more convincing and fearful villain or source of evil than the Sauron of PJ's movies, or, dare I say, even how he is presented by Tolkien in LotR. Yes, Celebrimbor 's fall depicts well how evil works.

They can try to depict Galadriel as a warrior but no matter how many sword fights or knife fights or high falutin' elven leader scenes they create, they utterly breech or transgress that attempt with the utterly stupid kiss between Elrond and her. Do we get to see a kiss between her and Gil-galad next episode? Equal opportunity time, writers. imho

I've been reading recently about why or how readers come back to reread LotR, in part as a return to a sentimental or nostalgic past that is so attractive. Can't say that this Second Age offers a similar nostalgic past; it's all just how everyone royally messes up. The message of hope in LotR seems to be missing in this age.

[Formendacil]

I have some issues and enjoyed some things--the mixed bag is getting to be quite typical.

1. Sauron is really pulling a reverse Gandalf-in-Minas-Tirith here--and Celebrimbor is the Denethor in that metaphor: but Gandalf took over control of the defense of the city because the lord had abandoned it willfully to lock himself in a tower: here Annatar is the one locking the lord in a tower in order to take control.
2. I'm not sure this is a plan that would plausibly work to dam a river... but what do I know of firing catapults at mountains?
3. Not sure I expected this of you, Narvi!
4. How did you get to Khazad-dûm without passing through Eregion, Elrond? Are Adar's orks too incompetent to fully circle the city and the land about--or do the writers not fully understand the map?
5. I like that the Elves of Eregion have a markedly different look from what we see in Lindon, or in the LotR.
6. You're so close... yet so far, Celebrimbor.
7. I think we might not quite get the "moment of betrayal" when he Sauron puts on the One: they already know Sauron has betrayed them. So, instead, I think we're getting an alternative taste of betrayal here.
8. "I have many names": that's another mirror-Gandalf moment!
9. The cavalry has come. Literally.
10. Somehow I bet this battle (or almost-battle) isn't going to meet the Bret Devereux bar...
11. Kiss, huh? Way to undercut the canon faithfulness we've been increasing this season
12. Stirrups on an elven horse?!?! At least you can nod to your Mannish kin, I suppose, Elrond.
13. Convenient how we've skipped over how this battle started. If we don't see how things started, they don't have to come up with plausible answers to things like "where were the battle lines drawn?"
14. Convenient this isn't all in the Black Speech, eh Galadriel?
15. Oh that's why Arondir is in this episode--to rescue Galadriel (and give him something to do).
16. "It would be a pity to lose another--!" That's more than another recast modernism--that's Princess Bride!
17. Some master gaslighting there, Great Deceiver.
18. Trying the old fire trick, Celebrimbor? I'll admit, I enjoy how they show that the 7 and the 9 are Great Rings like the One by having them do similar things.
19. Gonna be like Uncle Maedhros??? Okay, no--just like nine-fingered Frodo. (Another RotK reversal)
20. The guards just standing there watching...
21. I'm not sure shooting that arrow would be musculo-skeletally possible with the condition she's in...
22. Boromir echoes to join all the other LotR echoes.
23. Is Arondir going to be our in-Eregion POV character now (with the Mirdain having lost their one recognisable character and Celebrimbor about to die?)
24. Are we getting "he will never touch the Nine" in lieu of Season 1's mistakes?--i.e. this "get them to safety rescue mission" thing probably should have been about smuggling the Three out of Eregion, bu the way they ended last season, that's not possible.
25. They have a cave troll. <--another LotR echo.
26. Where was Khazad-dûm when Eregion fell? (insert Théoden about the Westfold meme here--but for real: this is the Battle of Pelennor inverted: the horns blew, but the allies did not come to their aid.
27. Adar wins, not Arondir, I guess. I wonder if he (Arondir) is dead.
28. End music... is really something

[Tar Elenion]

How did you get to Khazad-dûm without passing through Eregion, Elrond? Are Adar's orks too incompetent to fully circle the city and the land about--or do the writers not fully understand the map?

Beyond teleporting, the city is south of the river.

[Huinesoron]

I found this episode very frustrating. The moral of it appeared to be "even if you reject evil you are still utterly in its power": except for Celebrimbor while in his vision, everyone Sauron directly controls is someone who has recognised him, rejected him, and is actively working against him. The second message is "faith in your friends is folly"; see Elrond's final sequence.

At almost every point, I feel like Tolkien would have done, not just something different, but the opposite of this. Specifically including the random pointless murder of Mirdania; I don't like random punishment deaths, and there's at least two in this episode.

In the spirit of balance, I appreciated the Gondolin echoes, with Galadriel standing in for Idril and being told to lead the refugees out through a tunnel. I'm not sure how much of that is in the appendices, but it felt deliberate. And I think 'pretend to kiss her to distract from handing her the brooch' was tolerably clever (and, 'not idly do the leaves of Lindon fall...').

Ultimately, I think my wife had the best final comment on episode seven: "Nothing in this makes me want them to save Middle-earth."

hS