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Old 07-18-2024, 06:38 AM   #1
Findegil
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Indis as sister/sister-daughter/daughter of Ingwë: This was discussded under DoV-FM-04 & DoV-FM-05, but of course without the input from NoME. And if we take up the change it will as well make a change necessary in Capter "6 OF Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië / Here are some of the chief names of Finwë and his descendants: / 1. [The names of Finwë and his spouses]"Where Indis is named "the daughter of King Ingwë's sister". I will mark that passage as EPE-EX-21.07.
Now to the point itself: In the light of NoME I agree that Indis as the daugther of Ingwë is probably better. Tha means we would have:
Quote:
... His second wife was Indis, which means 'great or valiant woman'. No other names are recorded. EPE-EX-21.07 She is said to have been the daughter of King Ingwë{'s sister}.
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§23 It came to pass that after three years more Finwë took as second wife Indis the fair. She was in all ways unlike Míriel. She was not of the Noldor but of the Vanyar, being the DoV-FM-04b {sister}[daughter] of Ingwë; and she was golden-haired and tall and exceedingly swift of foot. She did not labour with her hands, but made music and wove words into song; and there was ever light and mirth about her while the bliss of Aman lasted.
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§27 In one year from their meeting upon the Mountain Finwë, King of the Noldor, wedded Indis, DoV-FM-05b{sister}[daughter] of Ingwë; and the Vanyar and Noldor for the most part rejoiced. ...
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Old 07-19-2024, 03:55 AM   #2
Arvegil145
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Just for the sake of transparency, here's the entire note 53 to the Shibboleth from the PoME (pp. 364-5), including CT's commentary in the brackets:

Quote:
When Aragorn, descended in long line from Elros, wedded Arwen in the third union of Men and Elves, the lines of all the Three Kings of the High Elves (Eldar), Ingwë, Finwë, and Olwë and Elwë were united and alone preserved in Middle-earth. Since Lúthien was the noblest, and the most fair and beautiful, of all the Children of Eru remembered in ancient story, the descendants of that union were called 'the children of Lúthien'. The world has grown old in long years since then, but it may be that their line has not yet ended. (Lúthien was through her mother, Melian, descended also from the Máyar, the people of the Valar, whose being began before the world was made. Melian alone of all those spirits assumed a bodily form, not only as a raiment but as a permanent habitation in form and powers like to the bodies of the Elves. This she did for love of Elwë; and it was permitted, no doubt because this union had already been foreseen in the beginning of things, and was woven into the Amarth of the world, when Eru first conceived the being of his children, Elves and Men, as is told (after the manner and according to the understanding of his children) in that myth that is named The Music of the Ainur.)

[As is said in the text at this point Arwen was descended from Finwë both in the line of Fingolfin (through Elrond) and in the line of Finarfin (through Celebrían); but she was also descended from Elwë (Thingol) through Elrond's mother Elwing, and through Galadriel's mother Eärwen from Olwë of Alqualondë. She was not directly descended from Ingwë, but her fore-mother Indis was (in earlier texts) the sister of Ingwë (X.261-2, etc.), or (in the present work, p. 343) the daughter of his sister. It is hard to know what my father had in mind when he wrote the opening of this note.]
- emphasis mine


Again, while CT doesn't know what to make of the beginning of this note, he might not have been aware of the NoME texts at the time, in which Indis was depicted as the daughter of Ingwe in multiple instances.


However, I'm not sure about the dating of the note - given that it was (presumably?) attached to the rest of the 'Shibboleth' texts, one would think that it dates from around the same time (c. 1968/70)...yet, one thing that bugs me is the mention of the term Máyar (a term that, to the best of my knowledge, was only used by Tolkien in the c. 1957-60 period): but I'm not sure how that could be the case, given the context of the note.
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