Questions from 'The Hobbit'

[Alassë Estel]

The only question here that I myself have considered before now, is your first one, about heroes and warriors. Your answer is quite satisfactory, and very plausible.

I enjoyed your comments on how Glamdring and Orcrist came to the possesion of Tom, Bert, and William very much. It makes me wonder if the cave troll that the Fellowship slew in Moria wasn't some sort of a distant relation of theirs...

However, I'm not quite so sure about the goblins' recognizing of Orcrist. It begs the question, how long do goblins live? Is it possible that the Misty Mountains harboured six-thousand-year-old goblins? Probably not, but it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

An alternative answer is that these swords were so legendary amongst the goblins, and of such a distinct appearance that they instantly recognized the weapons despite having never seen them before. That also seems a bit unlikely, but I sort of prefer that idea.

[Mithadan]

I will return later to discuss more of Huinesoron's excellent list, and will post now to address the Gondolin swords.

Glamdring was Turgon's sword. Assuming that the account found in Lost Tales is, in some form, the final version, Turgon retreated into his tower and died when the tower was brought down during the assault. This seems to be confirmed in The Silmarillion ("the tower was overthrown; and mighty was its fall and the fall of Turgon in its ruin."). Thir presents an intriguing scenario. Morgoth's forces did not merely destroy Gondolin, grab what spoils were readily available and leave. They took the time to dig through the rubble and thus find Turgon's sword where it was buried.

There has been significant speculation about Orcrist. Some suggest that it was Ecthelion's sword. Lost Tales suggests that he was wounded and dropped his sword, before impaling Gothmog on the spike of his helmet. This is a guess, at best.

How did the Trolls end up with the swords? This question can be resolved only via speculation. Elrond suggests that the Trolls plundered "other plunderers" or found a hidden cache of valuables. Where this may have taken place is unknown. Spoils buried in Angmar? A cache in Moria? My hesitation regarding the last is that the trolls in The Hobbit were northern hill trolls, not the cave-trolls present in Moria.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

How did the Trolls end up with the swords? This question can be resolved only via speculation. Elrond suggests that the Trolls plundered "other plunderers" or found a hidden cache of valuables. Where this may have taken place is unknown. Spoils buried in Angmar? A cache in Moria? My hesitation regarding the last is that the trolls in The Hobbit were northern hill trolls, not the cave-trolls present in Moria.

Moria is the only answer that doesn't involve a long chain of plunderers plundering plunderers. Someone had to carry the swords (and knife!) out of Beleriand before its fall, and it had to be someone with either hands or minions. I've suggested Sauron elsewhere (and that he handed them to the proto-Nazgul, accounting for their presence in the Angmar region), but I think I like the Balrog more. Perhaps it, or Azog, summoned the hill trolls down specifically for the battle with the dwarves?

A new question: what actually is Durin's Day?

Originally Posted by A Short Rest

"The first day of the dwarves' New Year," said Thorin, "is as all should know the first day of the last moon of Autumn on the threshold of Winter. We still call it Durin's Day when the last moon of Autumn and the sun are in the sky together."

I've seen a lot of people take this to mean that Durin's Day is ideal to New Year, and laugh at the idea that the dwarves can't predict their own calendar. But I think that's wrong. Bilbo specifically describes *seeing* the new moon, so I think Durin's Day is based on *observation*. If you actually see the new moon up there with the sun on Dwarven New Year (which will be based on the exact phase of the moon, its horizontal distance from the sun in the sky, and the weather!) then it's Durin's Day. If you don't lay eyes on the moon - then it's just New Year.

hS

[batysvan]

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

The only question here that I myself have considered before now, is your first one, about heroes and warriors. Your answer is quite satisfactory, and very plausible.

I enjoyed your comments on how Glamdring and Orcrist came to the possesion of Tom, Bert, and William very much. It makes me wonder if the cave troll that the Fellowship slew in Moria wasn't some sort of a distant relation of theirs...

However, I'm not quite so sure about the goblins' recognizing of Orcrist. It begs the question, how long do goblins live? Is it possible that the Misty Mountains harboured six-thousand-year-old goblins? Probably not, but it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

An alternative answer is that these swords were so legendary amongst the goblins, and of such a distinct appearance that they instantly recognized the weapons despite having never seen them before. That also seems a bit unlikely, but I sort of prefer that idea.







Engaging with J.R.R. Tolkien's masterpiece, 'The Hobbit,' has been an enriching journey filled with adventure and discovery. Addressing questions about Bilbo's character development, the significance of the ring, and the theme of heroism has not only deepened my understanding of the text but also sparked intriguing reflections on bravery, friendship, and the power of unexpected courage. For further exploration of literary themes and analysis, I highly recommend utilizing https://essaypro.com/buy-college-papers platform for buying college papers. Their expert writers provide insightful perspectives and valuable academic support, enriching your literary exploration and academic journey.

Thanks for the information!