Beren in Dagor Dagorath

[Arvegil145]

So, I've recently found a passage from The Children of Hurin which somehow went under my radar all this time.

It isn't really pertinent to the main topic of this thread per se, but I think it's fascinating nonetheless, and I don't really know where else to post it.

This passage (possibly) pertains to the idea of Turin coming back from...somewhere...and (maybe) inflicting the killing blow to Morgoth:

‘If any of us three be faithless, it is I: but not in will. But what of your doom and rumours of Angband? What of death and destruction? The Adanedhel is mighty in the tale of the World, and his stature shall reach yet to Morgoth in some far day to come.’

- The Children of Hurin, 'Turin in Nargothrond', p. 169; part of a conversation between Finduilas and Gwindor


This passage was brought to light to me by the user 'Mitchboy1995' on the r/TolkienFans (https://old.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans..._the_children/ ).


When do you think this passage was written? If I had to guess, sometime in the mid-to-late 1950's, alongside the majority of the CoH.

Regardless, what is everyone's impression of this passage?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Of course, it could be much nearer term and refer simply to the killing of Glaurung, depriving Morgoth of one of his top three servants

[Huinesoron]

"The Adanedhel is mighty in the tale of the World, and his stature shall reach yet to Morgoth in some far day to come."

[...]

Maybe Finduilas spoke truly, seeing with the keen eyes of the Eldar.

(The second line is a couple of paragraphs later; it's unclear how much of the conversation Finduilas is supposed to have spoken truly in.)

Could 'some far day' indicate the time no more than a decade later when Turin would kill Glaurung? Finduilas is an Elf of Valinor, already well over 500 years old at this point. My instinct is that when she talks about "a far day" in "the tale [or Song] of the World", she means just that: the far, far future. She also says Turin's stature shall 'reach yet to Morgoth', which to me means he will be as important in the Music as the Dark Lord. Killing a dragon doesn't really manage that.

If this is about the Last Battle, then it would come from before the amendments to the Second Prophecy in 1958, and the addition of Beren to the party that take on Morgoth. So like you say, it doesn't really touch on the main topic of the thread.

I wonder, though, whether Finduilas is actually prophecying herself here - or if she's quoting someone. She is a bit of a follower, and if we look at the Legendarium as a whole, she could easily be quoting Finrod, who would in turn be quoting Andreth the Wise.

hS

[Arvegil145]

I am pretty much in total agreement with you (Huinesoron, that is) when I say that my hunch is that Finduilas is refering to some far, far more removed event than the slaying of Glaurung by Turin c. 10 years after that conversation.

After all, what is a "far day to come" to an Elf? I'd say, definitely not 10 years or so in the future, especially with Finduilas referencing the "tale of the World" with a capital 'W'.

If this is about the Last Battle, then it would come from before the amendments to the Second Prophecy in 1958, and the addition of Beren to the party that take on Morgoth. So like you say, it doesn't really touch on the main topic of the thread.

I'm not quite sure what makes you think that? Or do you mean that, the text being part of the CoH, it probably dates to before 1958? If so, then yes, I would agree.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

I'm not quite sure what makes you think that? Or do you mean that, the text being part of the CoH, it probably dates to before 1958? If so, then yes, I would agree.

Sorry, yes, that's what I meant. I'm not sure when CoH was written exactly, but I've seen a couple.of places where CT implies it was early to mid 50s - so before the 1958 edits.

hS