Seriously - what was it that scared Gandalf to look more into Bilbo's ring?

[Priya]

Is there any evidence that before reading Isildur’s scroll, Gandalf knew that the One Ring could change size?

It fit Gollum and Bilbo’ little fingers - but it was really forged for the much larger hand of Sauron. We know it slipped from Isildur’s, but before his investigation in Minas Tirith - might Gandalf have felt it fitted loosely on him - being a partial reason for its loss?

Putting oneself in Gandalf’s position, early on - size-wise Bilbo’s ring might not have been thought to be a good physical match to the One Ring. This might be a reasonable source of doubt - though, I don’t recall Tolkien mentioning or hinting at it.

[Mithadan]

I seem to recall some mention from Frodo or Bilbo that the Ring was placed on a chain because it sometimes changed size. I could not find such a reference in Shadow of the Past (which does mention that Gandalf's interest in the Ring shifted from professional curiosity (when Bilbo found it and disclosed the "true" story) to alarm at Bilbo's conduct during the Birthday Party (which prompted Gandalf's visit to the archives in Minas Tirith). This is an interesting observation, Priya.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

I seem to recall some mention from Frodo or Bilbo that the Ring was placed on a chain because it sometimes changed size. I could not find such a reference in Shadow of the Past (which does mention that Gandalf's interest in the Ring shifted from professional curiosity (when Bilbo found it and disclosed the "true" story) to alarm at Bilbo's conduct during the Birthday Party (which prompted Gandalf's visit to the archives in Minas Tirith). This is an interesting observation, Priya.

It is from The Shadow of the Past. Early on in the conversation between Frodo and Gandalf.

"Though he had found out that the thing needed looking after; it did not seem always of the same size or weight: it shrank or expanded in an odd way, and might suddenly slip off a finger where it had been tight... Yes, he warned me of that in his last letter, said Frodo so I have always kept it on its chain"

From this it appears that Gandalf would have been aware of the ability to change size prior to going to Minas Tirith.

[Priya]

Hi Rune Son of Bjarne


When I say “change size” - I mean something more radical than a loosening or tightening. Those minor fluctuations, of course, might be attributable to a biological factor and/or sudden local temperature variations which affect metals - and Gandalf doesn’t seem to have been overly concerned by them. Indeed, we must note it was Bilbo who suggested the chain and not the wizard.

It appears to me that Gandalf never extrapolated the significance of the loosening/tightening phenomena. If Gandalf had truly suspected that the Ring could grow from aptly fitting the “long slender brown fingers” of a typical hobbit - to the girth of Sauron’s (seemingly of stature greater than even a 7 ft tall Isildur), then it’s probable that a third piece of evidence would have come into play.

Namely - Bilbo’s ‘little’ ring was not only gold, and unadorned (i.e. without a gem), but size-wise it could fit Sauron’s hand. Upon such a realization, alarm bells ought to have sounded in Gandalf’s head.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Priya

Hi Rune Son of Bjarne


When I say “change size” - I mean something more radical than a loosening or tightening. Those minor fluctuations, of course, might be attributable to a biological factor and/or sudden local temperature variations which affect metals - and Gandalf doesn’t seem to have been overly concerned by them. Indeed, we must note it was Bilbo who suggested the chain and not the wizard.

It appears to me that Gandalf never extrapolated the significance of the loosening/tightening phenomena. If Gandalf had truly suspected that the Ring could grow from aptly fitting the “long slender brown fingers” of a typical hobbit - to the girth of Sauron’s (seemingly of stature greater than even a 7 ft tall Isildur), then it’s probable that a third piece of evidence would have come into play.

Namely - Bilbo’s ‘little’ ring was not only gold, and unadorned (i.e. without a gem), but size-wise it could fit Sauron’s hand. Upon such a realization, alarm bells ought to have sounded in Gandalf’s head.

I think it is quite apparent from the section quoted, that Gandalf thinks this is significant, and definitly not something he would have attributed to biological factors.

This is the essense of what is problematic with this part of the book. Gandalf seems very concerned, and yet he does nothing for ages.

[Priya]

Hello Rune Son of Bjarne

Perhaps we ask too much of Gandalf. Despite being of a divine nature - he was not infallible. Tolkien related in a correspondence:


“But in this ‘mythology’ all the ‘angelic’ powers concerned with this world were capable of many degrees of error …”. - Letter #156

When talking of wizards, and in particular Gandalf:

“… he makes mistakes of judgement ….”. - Letter #156


One of these “mistakes” is misjudging the growth potential of the Ring. All we can conclude from the text is that he was aware of minor fluctuations in fit. We would be on dangerous ground extrapolating further.

Consider the scenario of the Ring being of fixed size for the Dark Lord’s finger and not being endowed with the magical ability to substantially grow or shrink. Does anybody truly believe Gandalf would not have instantly recognized Bilbo’s ‘magic bangle’ for what it really was?

So in my opinion, the text displays Gandalf hastily overlooking the Ring’s minor fit fluctuations without due consideration. But this was intentional on Tolkien’s part, and conveyed by the relatively quick dismissal of the looseness/tightness phenomena. The ‘chain’ solved the problem. And that was the only problem - in the wizard’s mind.

It usually takes a minimum of three aligning matters before one can reasonably start thinking of dismissing coincidence and begin forming a tenable theory. The Ring was definitely ‘gold’ and ‘unadorned’. A correctly envisioned ‘size’ - would have formed the third physical characteristic leg to the triad. A connection Tolkien didn’t want Gandalf to make in The Shadow of the Past or in the interval prior to reading Isildur’s scroll. Otherwise the hole in the plot would have been too large for a credible story.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

The thing is, I don't believe that it says anywhere that autosizing is a property restricted to the One Ring, or even the Great Rings. For all we know, it may be a feature of any magic ring made by the Mirdain. Tolkien never bothers telling us.

So it may well be that all Gandalf has to go on is "magic ring"- which tells him nothing new. And keep in mind that magic rings are not Gandalf's field; that's Saruman's speciality.