A new 1948 map of Arda by Tolkien!

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

I need to add a couple of things:

1) An excellent article regarding the geography of Arda (made by the same Discord user who uploaded the 1948 map): https://www.tolkiendil.com/essais/ge..._geographiques (mind you, it's in French - but Google Translate will suffice)

That map (copied for ease of linking) has a lot going for it. The land-border through the Mediterranean runs roughly along the Strait of Sicily, which was at one point a coastline (albeit briefly). I also appreciate that Tol Himling and Tol Fuin line up closely with the Isle of Man and Northern Ireland.

What it doesn't do, because no map can, is put Minas Tirith at the latitude of Ravenna/Florence and Pelargir at the latitude of Troy. Tolkien's atlas misled him there.

hS

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

What it doesn't do, because no map can, is put Minas Tirith at the latitude of Ravenna/Florence and Pelargir at the latitude of Troy. Tolkien's atlas misled him there.

To be fair, I wouldn't take these latitudes too literally - I believe they were just rough approximations in Tolkien's mind when he was writing that letter.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

To be fair, I wouldn't take these latitudes too literally - I believe they were just rough approximations in Tolkien's mind when he was writing that letter.

I think he definitely had a latitude for Minas Tirith in his head: Florence, Ravenna, and Belgrade are all within 1 degree of latitude of each other (between 44 and 45 degrees north). The problem is, none of them are 600 miles south of Oxford!

Also:

Originally Posted by Baynes map

Minas Tirith is about the latitude of Ravenna (that is 900 miles east of Hobbiton or near Belgrade). Bottom of the map (1450 miles) is about the latitude of Jerusalem. Umbar the city of Corsairs – about that of Cyprus.

Minas Tirith is 700 miles east of Hobbiton, according to the scale lines drawn on the Baynes map by Tolkien himself!

What is 900 miles east of Hobbiton, so precisely that I wonder if he used it to determine the scale, is Barad-Dur. The pencil on the Baynes map is quite faint, so I wonder if "but" is actually "b d". They seem easy to confuse. Ravenna is about 650 miles east of Oxford, which is about right for Minas Tirith, so it feels like Tolkien may have actually been using those three as the "real locations" for the map points.

Which would put the Misty Mountains somewhere in eastern France, and make the vertical line on the 1948 map way off the edge of the Third Age Map.

hS

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I think he definitely had a latitude for Minas Tirith in his head: Florence, Ravenna, and Belgrade are all within 1 degree of latitude of each other (between 44 and 45 degrees north). The problem is, none of them are 600 miles south of Oxford!

Also:



Minas Tirith is 700 miles east of Hobbiton, according to the scale lines drawn on the Baynes map by Tolkien himself!

What is 900 miles east of Hobbiton, so precisely that I wonder if he used it to determine the scale, is Barad-Dur. The pencil on the Baynes map is quite faint, so I wonder if "but" is actually "b d". They seem easy to confuse. Ravenna is about 650 miles east of Oxford, which is about right for Minas Tirith, so it feels like Tolkien may have actually been using those three as the "real locations" for the map points.

Which would put the Misty Mountains somewhere in eastern France, and make the vertical line on the 1948 map way off the edge of the Third Age Map.

hS

I think that to get the "correct" distances in Middle-earth - aside from where T gave a numeric figure (for example, precisely 296 miles by road from Edoras to Forannest), one should consult the Map, Tolkien's own working map, done on a grid to keep the scale right, and the original of which CT's published FR map was a direct copy.

CT presents a redrawn version in HME VII 297, or you can see the origianal (unfortunately small) in Maker of Middle-earth 378.

[Mithadan]

Any thoughts on CT's revised version, The West of Middle-Earth at the End of the Third Age, attached to Unfinished Tales?