Unpublished Material

[Alassë Estel]

Thank you all! I am glad for the new knowledge. It seems you all agree that there probably isn't anything else left, at least nothing whole. But perhaps bits and peices of little things.

A question I have asked myself, I think I shall ask here too. If there was some forgotten manuscript or lost notes, what would you hope they contained?

My answers are:
The fate of the Entwives confirmed, hopefully they would be found.
The tale of Bilbo's fairy (elf? )ancestor, on the Took side.
Whether or not Tom B. and Goldberry ever had children (just imagine a whole troop of blue-jacketted, yellow shod, merry mini Bombadils singing away, all through the Old Forest)

Given more time, I could probably come up with many other things. Does anyone else have any?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

The tale of Bilbo's fairy (elf? )ancestor, on the Took side.

Not by Tolkien, but see here.

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

Whether or not Tom B. and Goldberry ever had children (just imagine a whole troop of blue-jacketted, yellow shod, merry mini Bombadils singing away, all through the Old Forest)

Well...

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

Given more time, I could probably come up with many other things. Does anyone else have any?

I've always been wondering about the old man who sat outside the Paths of the Dead and died after saying 'The way is shut'. But then if his story were told a mystery suggesting hidden depths would turn into just another piece of Middle-earth lore, so... better not.

[Val Balmer]

In the years, I have written down a few notes on unpublished material I am aware of (mainly a bunch of poems).

Here's a brief summary_

• The first essay at a prose version of the tale "Beren & Luthien" [QS A + Final Version]
• The Dale-lands (1910, 1914)
• The Grimness of the Sea (1912, 1914)
• The Trumpets of Faerie (1914) / The Horns of the Host of Doriath (1924)
• The Mermaid’s Flute (1914, 1915, 1917)
• The Children of Hurin (Rhyming Couplets) (1930s)
• Dark (1914) / Copernicus and Ptolemy (1915-03-08)
• 'May-day' (1915-05-20)
• Dark Are the Clouds about the North (1915-09-14)
• Companions of the Rose (1915)
• A Dream of Coming Home & A Memory of July in England (1916-07-03)
• 'G.B.S.' (1916-17)
• Physiologus:
• >>Reginhardus, the Fox (~1920)
• >>Monoceros, the Unicorn (~1920)
• The Brothers in Arms (1919-20)
• Tales and Songs of Bimble Bay (1928):
• >>Old Grabber (1928)
• >>A Song of Bimble Bay (1928)
• The End of Bovandium or The Bovadium Fragments (1960s)
• 'Morning Song'.

[Alassë Estel]

Thanks for the reading material, Pitchwife . And I quite agree about letting some things, like the old man at the Paths of The Dead, remain mysterious. Tolkien had a knack for knowing which things should be resolved, and which should be left obscure.

I really appreciate the list Val Balmer. I am going to look each one up when I have time.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I've always been wondering about the old man who sat outside the Paths of the Dead and died after saying 'The way is shut'. But then if his story were told a mystery suggesting hidden depths would turn into just another piece of Middle-earth lore, so... better not.

He's a really interesting example, because he's already linked to a note that does away with a "mystery suggesting hidden depths" - the one about Baldor, the prince of Rohan who met him. LotR makes Baldor's fate sound very mysterious:

Originally Posted by RotK

He had fallen near the far wall of the cave, as now could be seen, and before him stood a stony door closed fast: his finger-bones were still clawing at the cracks. A notched and broken sword lay by him, as if he had hewn at the rock in his last despair.

"... through all the long years he has lain at the door that he could not unlock. Whither does it lead? Why would he pass? None shall ever know!"

Fantastic. Beautiful. Until you find the note Tolkien wrote explaining the whole thing:

Originally Posted by JRRT

...the door was the entrance to an evil temple hall to which Baldor had come, probably without opposition up to that point. But the door was shut in his face, and enemies that had followed him silently came up and broke his legs and left him to die in the darkness, unable to find any way out.

Baldor didn't die clawing at the door, so desperate to break in that he cared nothing for his own life. He was attacked and got turned around looking for the exit. The man at the gate was probably named Bill.

hS

[mhagain]

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

Thank you all! I am glad for the new knowledge. It seems you all agree that there probably isn't anything else left, at least nothing whole. But perhaps bits and peices of little things.

A question I have asked myself, I think I shall ask here too. If there was some forgotten manuscript or lost notes, what would you hope they contained?

My answers are:
The fate of the Entwives confirmed, hopefully they would be found.
The tale of Bilbo's fairy (elf? )ancestor, on the Took side.
Whether or not Tom B. and Goldberry ever had children (just imagine a whole troop of blue-jacketted, yellow shod, merry mini Bombadils singing away, all through the Old Forest)

Given more time, I could probably come up with many other things. Does anyone else have any?

If I'm allowed shoot for the stars, my hope is that some forgotten box somewhere might contain the rest of the 1950s Fall of Gondolin. Of course it 99.999999% probably doesn't exist at all, and was indeed abandoned just as we have it. But if we're allowed fantasise about what we'd love to have existing, that would have to be it.

[Mithadan]

I agree. the Hurin/Turin tale was essentially completed in all but the details. Beren and Luthien was reworked so many times that there is ample material to read even though there is not a single detailed narrative. It is the Tuor/Fall of Gondolin/Earendil story that cries out for a full treatment that does not really exist.

[Val Balmer]

I fully agree that it would be great to have a full (post-Lord of the Rings) version of The Fall of Gondolin or Earendil, but, as it was said, the probability that those exist are minimal.

On the other hand we know there is a fuller prose version of Beren and Luthien yet unpublished... I'd really like to see that first

[Arvegil145]

There's also the Taliska lexicon - which might just get published when my great-grandkids graduate from college...

[Aiwendil]

Not Legendarium-related, but there's also Tolkien's partial verse translation of "Beowulf". I still don't really understand why it was not included in the volume containing his prose translation.

The Tolkien Gateway has a fairly extensive list of unpublished texts by Tolkien known to exist: Index: Unpublished Material

[Alassë Estel]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Not Legendarium-related, but there's also Tolkien's partial verse translation of "Beowulf". I still don't really understand why it was not included in the volume containing his prose translation.

The Tolkien Gateway has a fairly extensive list of unpublished texts by Tolkien known to exist: Index: Unpublished Material

Thanks! I'll check that right away.