New Tolkien coming!

[gondowe]

Thank you for the errata. Have you a page where you update this? Or you are going to share here? Congrats for your work.

Greetings

[William Cloud Hicklin]

No, I don't have a website, not even a Facebook page; but TS it seems will be publishing the list.

[Arvegil145]

William, can you explain that last part of the 'Chronology'?

...and the realm of Moria shall be yours for ever, No [orc/one?] will Sauron suffer to assail you, or will suffer any [orc/one?] to challenge you again, and [?thus] they were deceived by Sauron and [?received] his aid whence he learned their secrets. Of his but Celebrimbor and Narvi . . .

Does this quote refer to the Second or the Third Age? Given the mention of Celebrimbor and Narvi, as well as the Dwarves receiving aid from Sauron (either by Sauron giving them the Ring of Thror, or alternatively Celebrimbor giving a Ring to Durin, indirectly assisting Sauron), I would imagine that it takes place in the Second Age, before Celebrimbor became a pin-cushion.


However, given the fact that the Orcs were clearly a major problem for the Dwarves at the time, it leads me to think that this exchange took place after the expulsion of the Dwarves from Khazad-dum, as well as the mention of Moria (a derogatory term), and the implication that the Dwarves aren't in possession of Moria.

I'm pretty confused by this passage.

[Mithadan]

I believe that the quote dates to the late Third Age and is what the Nazgul offered to Dain in exchange for the Ring or information leading to its recovery ("the least of rings.... a trifle that Sauron fancies...").

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

I believe that the quote dates to the late Third Age and is what the Nazgul offered to Dain in exchange for the Ring or information leading to its recovery ("the least of rings.... a trifle that Sauron fancies...").

But didn't Dain refuse the offer?

And what about the mentions of Celebrimbor and Narvi?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I'm pretty certain the reference is to Annatar, even though "Moria" is anachronistic (but then , it's on the gate inscription!). Not just the mentions of Celebrimbor and Narvi, but the idea that they were cozened by false promises. Sauron is not offering to give Moria back, but that he'd refrain from trying to take it (let's remember that in the Second Age Sauron was pretty much Emperor of the World outside Lindon, Eregion and Moria).

A second reason is that the handwriting gives me the impression of being considerably later than ca 1950 when the Chronology itself was done, and feels to me like it was aborted drafting for Of the Rings of Power or perhaps the History of Galadriel and Celeborn.

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I'm pretty certain the reference is to Annatar, even though "Moria" is anachronistic (but then , it's on the gate inscription!). Not just the mentions of Celebrimbor and Narvi, but the idea that they were cozened by false promises. Sauron is not offering to give Moria back, but that he'd refrain from trying to take it (let's remember that in the Second Age Sauron was pretty much Emperor of the World outside Lindon, Eregion and Moria).

A second reason is that the handwriting gives me the impression of being considerably later than ca 1950 when the Chronology itself was done, and feels to me like it was aborted drafting for Of the Rings of Power or perhaps the History of Galadriel and Celeborn.

I know that you spent years on these texts: but how can you tell when any of it was written?


It's honestly amazing...