Riddles in the Downs

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I get a bit of a Minas Anor / Minas Ithil vibe from some of the lines - two sisters, renamed when bad stuff happened, children of Elendil&Sons - but everything Minas Tirith touches doesn't turn ill, Elendil and Isildur are neither bound nor any longer in the north at the time of the remaining, and what mother is there to speak of.

Ooh, this comes so close. But I am not Minas Tirith, and neither Elendil nor Isildur are my father.

Actually, between this and Pervinca's "personifications" comment, I'm happy to confirm that there are no actual people in the riddle (other than the Men who were ruled... and I guess Turin, though he's only there in the negative).

Originally Posted by Urwen

So it's someone whose name can be translated into 'grim face', right? Since you didn't look at the books?

You give me too much credit. "Grim" is just a descriptive word, no hidden meanings.

(Now you've got me trying to translate "grim face" into Quenya... )

hS

[Urwen]

Minas Ithil, then? With Anarion as the 'father'?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Minas Ithil, then? With Anarion as the 'father'?

Hmm, what was the precise question? Right - no, I am not called "Minas Ithil".

(And the father is not a person, so cannot be Anarion.)

hS

PS: "Thîrvalch" would be Sindarin for "fierce face"; that's about as close to 'grim' as I can get.

[Urwen]

Are you called 'Minas Morgul', then?

With Minas Tirith as 'sister', and Osgiliath as 'father'?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Are you called 'Minas Morgul', then?

With Minas Tirith as 'sister', and Osgiliath as 'father'?

Once I was young, filled with hope and joy--
Now my face is grim, and all I touch turns to ill.
Once I was filled with moonglow; now I am infused with fell sorcery.

Once my mother was proud and noble--
Now she is fallen, her grace forgotten.
Once Osgiliath stood proud astride Anduin; now she lies ruined.

Once I was the child of a great ruler of men--
Now my father sits in the north, bound and bitter.
Once I was offspring of Numenor; now I am ruled by Barad-dur.

Once I had a sister, bright and fair--
Now my sister's name is altered, and woe lies between us.
Once Minas Anor was my sister; now she is Minas Tirith, and we are foes.

Once my name was fair, but to change my fate I reject it--
Now - since I was never Turin - what am I called?
Once I was Minas Ithil of the moon; now MINAS MORGUL is my name.

Very good! I enjoyed making the tragedy of the (Other) Two Towers sound so much like that of the Children of Hurin. I'm still not sure whether I should have left it open for you to just guess Turin at the start, but it worked. Over to you, and well done everyone!

hS

[Urwen]

Thanks! I enjoyed that one!

Now for a much less elegant one

Listen to my tale of woe
Of wrath and ruin, a tale untold
It happened long ago
In the realm where we had a stronghold

Two children I called my own
Both shared the same fate
One lies under the cold stone
The other died with her mate

The first one fled, defying our will
For she couldn't be contained
She condemned herself, for good for ill
And in this land she remained

The second one left us too
Retribution he sought
From one place to the next he'd go
Against the fate he fought

Now they're both gone
Along with my own mate
And now I weep all alone
The ones I loved met their fate

To the lands where I used to dwell
I shall now return
I bid the ones I loved farewell
Let the land they died in burn!

[Huinesoron]

Hmm. Other than one word, it sounds like Hurin. He only knew two of his children: Lalaith, who died at home after being an uncontainably joyful child, and Turin, who died with his mate, Nienor, after roaming around fighting fate and seeking retribution. Even the last stanza fits Hurin - "the land they died in" refers to the burning of Brethil, while he returned to both Hithlum and Gondolin (or tried to) after his release.

But the line says "The other died with her mate", which makes this child "the first" who fled and remained in "this land". Lalaith didn't die with anyone.

hS