Tidbits of Curiosity

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Hey, I got a lot of sympathy for the Hin - and for the parents, - and I am less inclined than Hui to blame them for the destruction they unwittingly brought about. Their story makes me sad, not angry. But specifically in Dor-lomin, Turin was indeed trying to impose his own philosophy on a system with a very fragile balance, and while there is no right answer in that plight (do you proudly die fighting as a people? Or live an abased life to allow your people to perhaps persevere and see another day at the end of it) - it is not a stranger's call to make on behalf of the people who are actually suffering the consequences of either of the options. He forced their hand in a way he didn't force anyone else's hand in his long line of unlucky tribulations.

Except he isn't a stranger. He is one of them. One of the old blood, that is.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Except he isn't a stranger. He is one of them. One of the old blood, that is.

No, at that point he pretty much was. He did not share in their tribulations, he did not share in their life, he did not share in their suffering of the consequences of the choice he imposed upon them. He came, told them to basically self-destruct, and left. The reason he was able to do so is that he was still recognized as the rightful heir - and if he came to command his people that they needed to self-sacrifice for some good cause, it would be legitimate. But he uprooted their whole meager existence, the last hope they had for actually living as a people, because he found it demeaning. He did it thinking that he was helping his folk - but he did not bother to ask the actual folk what they wanted, and did not understand how they lived. Dor-lomin's occupation is, again, a situation where there is no right answer. But it was not Turin's place to make that call on behalf of people that were in essence no longer part of his life, and to whom he was a name on the horizon.

[Urwen]

He still shares their blood. Or are saying he doesn't anymore?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

He still shares their blood. Or are saying he doesn't anymore?

Their blood, not their life. *shrug*

[Urwen]

Besides, are you saying they want to live as thralls?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Besides, are you saying they want to live as thralls?

We don't have to speculate - from Children of Hurin we have their own words:

Originally Posted by Aerin

Ill though my life was, you have brought death to me with your violence.

Turin sparked off a revolt that stood zero chance of freeing his country. He directly caused the death of the woman leading the people of Dor-lomin in his absence. He doesn't even seem to do it through a misguided effort to save them - he forces a confrontation out of pride, gets angry with Brodda for insulting his mother, and lashes out.

What did the people of Dor-lomin actually want? Let's ask Asgon this time:

Originally Posted by Asgon

Many a man of arms misreads patience and quiet. She did much good among us at much cost. Her heart was not faint, and patience will break at the last.

Sounds like he wanted support and hope, not anger and despair.

Helping Dor-lomin was actually within Turin's power. He could have remade the Outlaws and directed them against the Easterlings, making the land a danger for them, drawing on his learning as a leader of Nargothrond to forge the Hadorians into a secret army. That might have worked! Killing one man and then running away wouldn't.

EDIT: We see this same story play out with Thorin Oakenshield. "The King under the Mountain has returned! Oh - all he's actually done is provoke the monster threatening us, and now everything is on fire." Aragorn, meanwhile, returns to a kingdom whose enemy is already as provoked as he can get, comes with an army and a plan, and defers to the existing Gondorian leaders until pressured by Imrahil to claim his title.

hS

[Urwen]

The Outlaws were all dead at the time, so no, he couldn't have. At least not with the originals. Who could he have used, then?