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Old 11-02-2022, 10:59 AM   #1
Huinesoron
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Hunting out more references... the Tale of Years in HoME XII tells of Elrond's children:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TY 2300
These children were three parts of Elven-race, but the doom spoken at their birth was that they should live even as the Elves so long as their father remained in Middle-earth; but if he departed they should have then the choice either to pass over the Sea with him, or to become mortal, if they remained behind.
This contradicts the various NoME texts which claim Arwen's choice was made at her wedding, and also implies the El-twins both became mortal.

The beginning of HoME XII's "The Making of Appendix A" holds that Elros' choice immediately bound his descendents, while to Elrond's children...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Making of Appendix A
... a choice was also appointed: to pass with him from the circles of the world; or if they wedded with one of Mankind, to become mortal and die in Middle-earth.
It's unclear what would happen if they stayed in Middle-earth unmarried in this version.

I vaguely recognise the reference William Cloud Hicklin mentions, but also can't find the cite.

EDIT: Thought it might be in Letters, but no. Letters 153 & 154 both assert that "the half-elven" were given a choice, and name both Elrond and Arwen. If linked with WCH's cite, that would imply that all children of an elf and a half-elf would have the same choice, while all children of a mortal and a half-elf would be mortal. But it might also just be a summary for simplicity.

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Last edited by Huinesoron; 11-02-2022 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 11-02-2022, 11:13 AM   #2
William Cloud Hicklin
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I don't think the two cites are really contradictory, given Tolkien's old-school views: marrying a Man necessarily meant remaining with him/her in Middle-earth, and therefore staying behind when Elrond departed. I don't think it's necessary to pinpoint a moment when a "mortality switch" was flipped; Arwen does not appear to have died of anything except grief, and that essentially voluntarily.
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Old 11-09-2022, 01:20 PM   #3
Galin
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Hmm. I found components to WCH's statement above: for example (stated by Manwe) in the conclusion to Quenta Silmarillion [HME 5]: "Now all those who have the blood of Mortal Men, in whatever part, great or small, are mortal, unless other doom be granted to them; . . ."

Then there's letter 131 [to Waldman]: "The doom or gift of God, of mortality, the gods of course cannot abrogate, but the Numenoreans have a great span of life."

Although I too, at least feel like it was stated as William writes it above, even if I can't find it.

Anyway . . .
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