**Spoiler Warning** Rings of Power S1E8 - "Alloyed"

[Oddwen]

"Lord Sauron" Huh. I'll believe THAT if it still stands at the end of the episode.

SUNFRUIT CALLOUT

"Six days ago. We rode wihout rest. Can you help him?"
"Well not anymore!!!"

"The master I apprenticed to" yeah yeah yeah everyone was apprenticed to Aule, you aren't special

"His hand never touched or sullied them"

Pardon me while I lay on the floor and groan for a while at Halbrannatarwurst inventing the elven rings to Celebrimbor's face.

"Call it.....a gift" EFFFFFFFF YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Go not to the elves for counsel, for they will say both 'hope is never mere' and 'it is a fool's hope'


Gil-Galad is cynical and doom-besotten as all get-out in this but I really like the actor's face. So you know, I'm perfectly balanced between two points and all that.


Galadriel's green dress is pretty.

"He weights all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice"

THE LANDS OF RUNE????? (I'm glad I get to hear one of my favorite lines "where the stars are strange")

Sadoc : (

Mothrandir strikes again!

Just tell them Galadriel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Poppy

"Nobody goes off trail" Except for Nori we're running her off the road byeeeee! (I know her name is "Brandy"foot but will she be the progenitors of Tooks or Baggins? Or will she meet them in season 2?)

Poppy

"Just follow your nose" Okay she is a proto-Brandybuck. Is it Tolkien? Not quite. Is it endearing? Yeah. (Also The Strangedalf lapsing into slightly more formal language - almost too much? Have they been using all of that terrible dialogue on purpose all this time?)

Celebrimbor: :}

So I'm not a metalsmith but I (used to be? will be again?) am a glass-smith, and that is my not-at-all professional opinion that that's a needlessly complicated apparatus.

Elven riiiiiiiiinggssssss (the jewels aren't cut???? those are some really small tanning beds. what will Sauron make the Seven and the Nine out of?)

Okay. I'mma say it since no-0ne else has yet. Elendil is a a little bit delectable even without the Helmendil. Thanks for coming to my T.E.D.talk. (The Elendil D.......emeanor)







So I agree with B88 that they revealed the Halbrand/Sauron not too terribly - I like the idea of Sauron thinking he's redeeming himself but still greedy and not quite able to grasp what "healing" actually is, still grasping for power over and not power to heal or preserve, looking forredemption in all the wrong places - he did try to repent out of guilt several times as I recall, not out of desire to do good in itself - and really, who could be considered his equal in Middle-earth if not Galadriel?

Originally Posted by B88

Well, I think to Jackson's credit, he put better people around him, and more qualified experts from the Tolkien community that at times he listened to.

Jackson's greatest feat was the artisans he brought in - Howe & Lee, the craftsmen who wrought the armor, clothing, sets, jewelry and special effects/Weta workshop - as well as the the land that shaped him. I hear that future seasons will not be filmed in New Zealand for budgetary reasons (eff you and your budget amazon) which is incredibly sad, as nature and the preservation thereof is a core of Tolkien's beliefs and work. Not sure which thread to put that thought but there it is.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

I hear that future seasons will not be filmed in New Zealand for budgetary reasons (eff you and your budget amazon) which is incredibly sad, as nature and the preservation thereof is a core of Tolkien's beliefs and work. Not sure which thread to put that thought but there it is.

That is disappointing. They made a big fuss about having a 1 billion dollar(insert Dr. Evil voice) budget here but it really didn't feel like a 1 billion dollar budget show.

[Formendacil]

Boro brings up an interesting topic: Jackson vs. the Amazon team: who does it better?

Honestly, I think it's not a fair comparison, if you're comparing the LotR movies to RoP--RoP relies so much on the movies for establishing what the cinematic "feel" of Middle-earth is (New Zealand, certain looks for the Númenóreans, Howard Shore's motifs, etc, etc, etc.). And to make an LotR movie, Jackson had to compress Tolkien's story.

However, if you want to compare the Amazon team to Jackson's Hobbit movies, then I think it's a much fairer comparison: both are making prequels that rely on the LotR movies for Middle-earth's cinematic feel and both have a LOT of blank-filling (whether that was necessary in Jackson's case is another matter--let's pretend that it is). I think on that front that it's clear that the Amazon team has a deeper knowledge of Tolkien's lore and themes--and I'm not saying that Jackson doesn't love Tolkien, but I think Jackson loves The Lord of the Rings specifically whereas it's clear the Amazon team knows more than just the LotR--it's clear they know The Letters, the Silm, Unfinished Tales, and possibly more given their clear awareness of Tolkien's themes and ideas.

If you compare RoP to the The Hobbit movies, I think RoP comes out looking quite good in comparison (literally, if you remember the 48 fps decision), but it's not without flaws. For all that I want to praise the showrunners for their clear awareness of Tolkien's lore, I'm not at all convinced they're good writers or experienced storytellers. When I say "good writers," I mean their dialogue, which was rarely memorable, sometimes baffling (even just from an in-universe perspective), and just rarely sounded to my ear like "Tolkien." Granted, he's a HARD writer to mimic, but it should surely have been easier to get in the ballpark.

I also think that they simultaneously did very little this season and crammed too much in: when we FINALLY get to the making of the Rings in this final episode, it felt like this rushed by incredibly quickly and that we'd wasted most of the season getting to this point. The fact that Arondir, Bronwyn, Theo, Adar--i.e. the entire Southlands plot, was missing from this episode had that entire, time-consuming plot feeling overblown and digressive, and I think Númenor has been given the shortest shrift of the canon elements--so far, it has borne nearly the entire burden of the time distortion, and the motivation for this massively large civilisation sending a (tiny? powerful?) fleet to Middle-earth is hard to understand and really feels like it happened because "that's the plot."

My final verdict, I think, is that I overall liked the show (faint praise that I nonetheless only remember giving to one of the The Hobbit movies), found it quite flawed, yet nonetheless found it had enough interesting things and well-done things to hold my interest. Given how much that was through the lens of a Tolkien fan who enjoys dissecting this here, I'm not sure I'd recommend it for the general public, but I probably would defend it against the indiscriminate haters.

One thing that I find almost baffling, though, is how it cost so much--the most per episode of any television show ever. How? They're not paying famous actors. They're clearly not paying the most expensive writers. There are ample complaints I've seen (admittedly, on the Tumblr-verse) of how Amazon cuts corners with costume designers, CGI artists, etc (you know, basically, Amazon is the World's Worst Capitalist Excesses Evil Overlords™--in other words, they'll do everything that Netflix and Disney+ do to keep costs down and then some, because they are The Most Evil). I'm not saying that Amazon made this on a shoe-string budget, and it's clear that a lot of resources were poured in here, but... it's eight episodes. Perhaps it's simply a case of "money can't buy success," because the result feels exceptionally middling and it hasn't had the cultural impact Amazon wanted.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Form

However, if you want to compare the Amazon team to Jackson's Hobbit movies, then I think it's a much fairer comparison: both are making prequels that rely on the LotR movies for Middle-earth's cinematic feel and both have a LOT of blank-filling (whether that was necessary in Jackson's case is another matter--let's pretend that it is). I think on that front that it's clear that the Amazon team has a deeper knowledge of Tolkien's lore and themes--and I'm not saying that Jackson doesn't love Tolkien, but I think Jackson loves The Lord of the Rings specifically whereas it's clear the Amazon team knows more than just the LotR--it's clear they know The Letters, the Silm, Unfinished Tales, and possibly more given their clear awareness of Tolkien's themes and ideas.

That is an excellent point and I think your post has pinpointed the source of my disappointment in the series. Trying to compare it to the Lord of the Rings trilogy, out of perhaps an expectation that it could have the same impact as that trilogy did when I first watched them. It fell short, I agree there is hardly anything memorable (in a positive way) about the dialogue. The music is memorable, the visuals are memorable. The acting isn't memorable, but it's not a detriment for me either. That is aside from some of the peripheral characters. I think Megan Richards (the actress playing Poppy) was an absolute star among the Harfoots. I also enjoyed Lenny Henry (sad his character has died). I will be said when Durin Sr. leaves the screen for good. Robert Aramayo's Elrond has grown on me. Despite Celebrimbor not looking like the greatest Elven smith of the age, I loved Charles Edwards' take on being more of a mad scientist, with a passion for craftsmanship that leads to obsession. At this point, the only one I would call memorable (from an acting standpoint) in Season 1 is Poppy.

The letdown is comparing it to LOTR, when I agree with your point that The Hobbit is a fairer comparison. Comparing the series to The Hobbit, I would say the series is better. They demonstrated an understanding and a passion for Middle-earth's 2nd Age and hitting on Tolkien's themes about people working together for the common good, developing the orcs in ways that was far superior to Peter Jackson (or really any fantasy story I've seen), mortality vs. immortality, the glimmer of a Sauron redemption story (the reveal wasn't done terribly, it was just rushed).

The only bits of dialogue that are memorable (in the non-cringe, but actually good) was Elrond and Durin's elevator conversation and Elrond and Gil-galad's conversation about oath breaking and hope (but that has the cringe "we need vast quantities of mithril immediately!" plot mixed in with it ).

I'm glad Form brought up this point about comparing the series to Lord of the Rings trilogy vs. The Hobbit. While I agree with the point, I think the flaw in the series is they are trying to actually build it up as a comparison to the LOTR trilogy, and Season 1 underdelivered. They could have gone further in creating an interesting AU, or fanfiction story, but they played this safe middle-road to not stray too far from PJ's LOTR vision. They've done some things better, but I don't like the sense I'm getting about The Stranger being Gandalf.

I would like it better, if the Stranger was one of the blue wizards, or because of copyright maybe can't be the blue wizard, but a generic Istar that was sent during the same time as Sauron's coming to confront him. Go crazy with the AU, have The Stranger go East and either try to weaken Sauron's growing power (maybe even form an alliance with Adar?), or join Sauron to defeat Adar, or whatever you want to do. My point is, it doesn't have to be Gandalf and the disappointment is it seems like that's the way they're going by blatantly ripping Gandalf's lines from the films.

Anway, there are a lot of kinks to work out, but overall I agree with Form's comment:

My final verdict, I think, is that I overall liked the show (faint praise that I nonetheless only remember giving to one of the The Hobbit movies), found it quite flawed, yet nonetheless found it had enough interesting things and well-done things to hold my interest. Given how much that was through the lens of a Tolkien fan who enjoys dissecting this here, I'm not sure I'd recommend it for the general public, but I probably would defend it against the indiscriminate haters.

In my case, I would go even further and say that is not something that I felt the need to do with The Hobbit trilogy. I never felt a desire to defend those movies from the critics, because it just didn't interest me enough to do so. I've found the Rings of Power to have several kinks to work out (I'm not sure they're capable of doing it) but the Season 1 finale sparked enough interest I can imagine its potential and intrigued by the possibilities. I hope future seasons break more from PJ's LOTR, and they create a different vision. Higher risk, but also higher rewards.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

All I can say us that I don’t in the least regret having given this a miss.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

All I can say us that I don’t in the least regret having given this a miss.

I can understand and respect that adaptations aren't everyone's cup of tea (or whatever particular drink of choice you prefer). For what it's worth, you don't strike me as a person who shames fans like myself, or think that somehow enjoying adaptations make me a 'lesser' Tolkien fan.

I understand members on this forum who don't think film and media adaptations are necessary to bring Tolkien's story to life. If I was brought up and introduced to the books first, maybe my opinions would be the same. I share similar opinions to the gripes on Hollywood, towards Amazon and Disney...etc. Why put in the hard work of creating an original story, when you can just smack on Tolkien branding and make higher profits (or believe that it will make more money)? Adaptations, fanfiction, "remakes" are here and don't appear to be going away anytime soon.

As Form and Oddwen have said, I think it's accurate to say Peter Jackson loved The Lord of the Rings. It shows if you've watched the documentaries about the making of LOTR. And to his credit he put together a more talented, and knowledgeable team and cast of actors around him that were just as passionate (if not even more so) about Lord of the Rings.

With Season's 1 conclusion, I would argue with anyone that it's clear to me Payne and McKay read about and we're inspired by the Middle-earth's 2nd Age; particularly the Rings of Power and Fall of Eregion and Numenor. I agree with Form and everyone else here, that the Amazon team, leaves a lot to be desired. I don't know if they'll get the warts out to elevate the series to have the impact the LOTR trilogy did. But the finale did it's job for me, in the way of "ok it's finally going somewhere" and answered the questions that needed answered. I'm intrigued by the possible paths future seasons can follow.

-The Stranger (might as well just call him Gandalf now ) is heading East. I'm interested to see what they do with Rhun.
-I want to see how Celebrimbor and Sauron's relationship plays out. I like Charles Edward's take by truly showing Celebrimbor's craftsmanship is leading to an obsession and tragedy. His interaction at meeting Halbrand (and someone with shared passion). His facial expression when Galadriel says they're never to treat with Halbrand again was spot on. It was an "about that...yeah that's not going to happen and who are you to give me that advice?"
-I'm most intrigued by what alliances will form? Sauron and Adar are heading for a collision course. Who allies with Adar? Does Sauron "steal away" the loyalty and reverence the orcs have for Adar? What part does Numenor play during Sauron and Adar's confrontation?
-And obviously more rings need to be forged.

[Boromir88]

I want to bring up another point I was thinking about with the season finale, that has been brought up. With Sauron being in Celebrimbor's forge and the process being underway, how is it they're dealing with the fact Sauron "never touched or sullied the 3 Elven Rings."

It's easy to miss because of how rushed and crammed the finale was, but they didn't decide to forge 3 rings until almost the very end. When Halbrand was helping and aiding Celebrimbor in the forge, the plan was to make 1 crown that they would give to Gil-galad. It wasn't until after Galadriel's temptation and refusal of Sauron that Galadriel, Elrond and Celebrimbor decided to forge 3 rings. Galadriel says something like "1 is too powerful for a single person, 2 will divide, 3 there's balance." So, that's why Galadriel doesn't stop the forging of rings process, and how I think they are addressing the "Sauron never touched or sullied the 3 Elven Rings." It wasn't going to be 3 rings until like the last 5 minutes of the episode. Which is problematic from their decision to cram this all into the finale, but not as problematic as Sauron telling Celebrimbor "hey let me help forge some rings." I actually do want to see the finale again relatively soon, because I think it's Celebrimbor who brings up it should be rings for their "circular form". The idea of a circle being the most powerful shape in the world sounds very Tolkienian. I recall old lore threads about the symbolism of circular forms and rings. So, that was a nice touch.